Re: [drupal-devel] what do you call a rose?
Gerhard, Your point is taken, however, who is going to do the education? You? Me? Other members of the team? Sure, we can make a best effort, but will we reach them all, due to the dynamic nature of Drupal's user base? Regards, Kobus
killesreiter@physik.uni-freiburg.de 10/3/2005 4:20:43 PM >>>
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, Kobus Myburgh wrote:
The problem here is: Who is the user? Is it the admin of a site? Or is it the user registering on a site. For that latter kind of user I do agree with you, for admins I do not.
You have a point, but what you have to remember is that not all admins are technical gurus like you :-)
Sometimes the admin of a site is a newbie, or sometimes it is me. Haha. :-)
Well, my stance is that I rather educate people (even if it takes a mallet) rather than dumbing down things so that anybody can _think_ they understand them. Cheers, Gerhard
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, Kobus Myburgh wrote:
Your point is taken, however, who is going to do the education? You? Me? Other members of the team? Sure, we can make a best effort, but will we reach them all, due to the dynamic nature of Drupal's user base?
The people are supposed to educate themselves by means of the docs we got to provide. If they are too lazy to read it is their problem if they stay dumb and cannot use excellent software. Cheers, Gerhard
Op 3-okt-2005, om 18:42 heeft Gerhard Killesreiter het volgende geschreven:
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, Kobus Myburgh wrote:
Your point is taken, however, who is going to do the education? You? Me? Other members of the team? Sure, we can make a best effort, but will we reach them all, due to the dynamic nature of Drupal's user base?
The people are supposed to educate themselves by means of the docs we got to provide. If they are too lazy to read it is their problem if they stay dumb and cannot use excellent software.
Cheers, Gerhard
The fact that we need documentation for people to accomplish their goals is another proof, that drupals usability could be improved a lot more than the current level. The better UI and guidelines we have, the better our drupal will be and the less documentation we will need.. I'm not saying that you can work without documentation, but in this case "less is better", because it means you can reach your goal by feeling where to go to... Another $ 0.02... Stefan
We're going round and round with the same pointless discussion they always have on Slashdot about whether users are stupid or lazy or whether open-source developers are just plain unresponsive to the users. "User are stupid!" "Developers are arrogant!" Both statements are worthless and nonsensical. To me, it's all pretty simple. Do I want to give somone a product that is: 1) Powerful, but you have to invest 30 hours to learn how to use it and often get frustrated and confused by it? OR 2) One that is equally powerful but you only have to invest 5 hours or so to learn how to use? (Please don't get caught up in the details of how many hours it takes, these are just hypothetical questions. I'm not suggesting it takes 30 hours to learn Drupal). Option 2 is obviously where we want to head. Despite what we've been told, power and flexibility do not *always* have to come at the expense of ease of use. You *can* make things easy for user and have it be powerful at the same time. But it takes a lot of thought and effort to get there. And it also takes a lot of honest listening to users who are genuinely confused by the software. And it also takes a huge amount of effort on the part of developers to try to put themselves in the shoes of users instead of calling them "stupid" for not wanting to waste hours of their life learning a product when simpler solutions probably exist. On 10/3/05, Gerhard Killesreiter <killesreiter@physik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, Kobus Myburgh wrote:
Your point is taken, however, who is going to do the education? You? Me? Other members of the team? Sure, we can make a best effort, but will we reach them all, due to the dynamic nature of Drupal's user base?
The people are supposed to educate themselves by means of the docs we got to provide. If they are too lazy to read it is their problem if they stay dumb and cannot use excellent software.
Cheers, Gerhard
-- Dondley Communications http://www.dondleycommunications.com Communicate or Die: American Labor Unions and the Internet http://www.communicateordie.com
Option 2 is obviously where we want to head. Despite what we've been told, power and flexibility do not *always* have to come at the expense of ease of use. You *can* make things easy for user and have it be powerful at the same time. But it takes a lot of thought and effort to get there. And it also takes a lot of honest listening to users who are genuinely confused by the software. And it also takes a huge amount of effort on the part of developers to try to put themselves in the shoes of users instead of calling them "stupid" for not wanting to waste hours of their life learning a product when simpler solutions probably exist.
Here's my suggestion: * create a new category.module. It is just like taxonomy, only without synonyms or related terms. Those are taxonomic principles, that belong in a taxonomic system, not in a categorical system. * disable taxonomy.module by default. it will only come into play when someone *knows* what a taxonomy is, and enables it. * "categories" when category.module is enabled, "taxonomy" and related terms/synonyms when taxonomy.module is enabled. taxonomy, being a "higher" level of a category, will always trump categories. Solved. -- Morbus Iff ( you are nothing without your robot car, NOTHING! ) Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ O'Reilly Author, Weblog, Cook: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
+1 Morbus Iff escreveu:
Here's my suggestion:
* create a new category.module. It is just like taxonomy, only without synonyms or related terms. Those are taxonomic principles, that belong in a taxonomic system, not in a categorical system.
* disable taxonomy.module by default. it will only come into play when someone *knows* what a taxonomy is, and enables it.
* "categories" when category.module is enabled, "taxonomy" and related terms/synonyms when taxonomy.module is enabled. taxonomy, being a "higher" level of a category, will always trump categories.
Solved.
participants (6)
-
Fabiano Sant'Ana -
Gerhard Killesreiter -
Kobus Myburgh -
Morbus Iff -
Stefan -
Steve Dondley