[consulting] consulting Digest, Vol 43, Issue 22
Fred Steadman
fstead at mac.com
Fri Aug 7 15:55:57 UTC 2009
It would seem that in software development, as in poetry, a minimum
acquaintance with the tools and methods of the particular art are
certainly helpful, if not absolutely necessary, to produce great
works. Certification cannot assure artistry or creativity, but it
can assure acquaintance with the tools, and provide guidance as to
which tools and techniques to learn.
Certification can also provide the means for a newcomer to enter a
profession. This can be either good or bad, depending on whether
you're a newby trying to get in, or an old timer wishing no more
newbies would come along.
OMO.
Fred Steadman
200 Lark Court
Irving, TX 75062
214 762 6376
fstead at mac.com
On Aug 7, 2009, at 10:09 AM, consulting-request at drupal.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Drupal Certification (Ayen Designs)
> 2. Re: Drupal Certification (Ayen Designs)
> 3. Re: Drupal Certification (Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg)
> 4. Re: Drupal Certification (Victor Kane)
> 5. Re: Drupal Certification (Greg Knaddison)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:21:13 -0400
> From: Ayen Designs <info at ayendesigns.com>
> Subject: Re: [consulting] Drupal Certification
> To: A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers
> <consulting at drupal.org>
> Message-ID: <4A7C3859.8030103 at ayendesigns.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> No, it has a lot to do with the location...just not the specific
> location. I, given spec that is loose enough to depend on my cultural
> sensibilities, would develop just as questionable a result writing
> software for a company in India or China or anywhere outside my
> sphere,
> but I may have a perfect score on the certification. The point was
> that
> that, as just one example, is why certification doesn't speak to the
> suitability of the person for the purpose, only that they have
> memorized
> the core material.
>
> Bill Fitzgerald wrote:
>
>> Ayen Designs wrote:
>>
>>> Not to malign offshore developers, but through much experience I can
>>> say that there is a fairly consistent issue of developers outside
>>> the
>>> west understanding the unwritten business assumptions, aesthetics
>>> and
>>> other intangibles that one expects to be present in design and
>>> development, unless those things are spelled out in agonizing
>>> detail.
>>> However, these same folks can score very high on certification
>>> exams.
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:23:01 -0400
> From: Ayen Designs <info at ayendesigns.com>
> Subject: Re: [consulting] Drupal Certification
> To: A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting providers
> <consulting at drupal.org>
> Message-ID: <4A7C38C5.4080701 at ayendesigns.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Here, here. Uh, but wait...what percentage of software is being bought
> by socialists as opposed to capitalist monopolies? And if everyone
> went
> socialist, they'd all need the same software.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:29:23 -0400
> From: Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg <Alex at ZivTech.com>
> Subject: Re: [consulting] Drupal Certification
> To: "A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting
> providers" <consulting at drupal.org>
> Message-ID:
> <37b3830e0908070729w53741a67xd9522b1f4e80f0e9 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>> Since the point is now to help folks get work and learn the trade,
>> then
> this
>> isn't a certification program, but a course.
>>
>> I think these are two different concepts. There are several courses &
> books
>> available to teach Drupal, which new developers with any initiative
>> should
>> already be looking up / researching. Why would we tie this to an
>> official
>> certification that is just going to inconvenience other veteran
> developers?
>
> What I'd really like to see is a good definition of what it means to
> be a
> "Profressional" Drupal Developer and/or Shop, which I don't think is
> as
> simple as courses, since what we're really talking about is real world
> experience. I really think that we should be moving in the general
> direction
> that Victor points to, but I'm thinking more along the lines of how
> Trade
> Unions are run (i.e. there is a ladder to climb, mostly tied to
> experience,
> to achieve "master" status). The big issue with this would be the
> youth of
> the technology.
>
> But still, what about a Drupal Developers/Shops Guild?
>
> --
> Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
> ZivTech, LLC
> http://zivtech.com
> alex at zivtech.com
> office: (267) 940-7737
> cell: (215) 866-8956
> skype: zivtech
> aim: zivtech
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Brian Vuyk<brian at brianvuyk.com>
> wrote:
>> I should have added this to my prior email, but I didn't see it until
> Alex's
>> reply...
>>
>> Since the point is now to help folks get work and learn the trade,
>> then
> this
>> isn't a certification program, but a course.
>>
>> I think these are two different concepts. There are several courses &
> books
>> available to teach Drupal, which new developers with any initiative
>> should
>> already be looking up / researching. Why would we tie this to an
>> official
>> certification that is just going to inconvenience other veteran
> developers?
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> Victor Kane wrote:
>>>
>>> I am a socialist, and I believe the workers should own the means of
>>> production. Then it could make sense to form some kind of
>>> certification
>>> program to help folks get work and learn the trade when they are
>>> new, and
> to
>>> create sustainable forms of communication so that those seeking
>>> services
> are
>>> well served, and that the needs of the people are truly met.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> consulting mailing list
>> consulting at drupal.org
>> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:49:46 -0300
> From: Victor Kane <victorkane at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [consulting] Drupal Certification
> To: "A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting
> providers" <consulting at drupal.org>
> Message-ID:
> <ff176450908070749v4240c8d1yf13c0ed07032e857 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> +1 concrete form of international organization for developers who have
> nothing to sell but their labor.
> Victor
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
> <Alex at zivtech.com>wrote:
>
>>> Since the point is now to help folks get work and learn the trade,
>>> then
>> this
>>> isn't a certification program, but a course.
>>>
>>> I think these are two different concepts. There are several
>>> courses &
>> books
>>> available to teach Drupal, which new developers with any initiative
>> should
>>> already be looking up / researching. Why would we tie this to an
>>> official
>>> certification that is just going to inconvenience other veteran
>> developers?
>>
>> What I'd really like to see is a good definition of what it means
>> to be a
>> "Profressional" Drupal Developer and/or Shop, which I don't think
>> is as
>> simple as courses, since what we're really talking about is real
>> world
>> experience. I really think that we should be moving in the general
>> direction
>> that Victor points to, but I'm thinking more along the lines of how
>> Trade
>> Unions are run (i.e. there is a ladder to climb, mostly tied to
>> experience,
>> to achieve "master" status). The big issue with this would be the
>> youth of
>> the technology.
>>
>> But still, what about a Drupal Developers/Shops Guild?
>>
>> --
>> Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
>> ZivTech, LLC
>> http://zivtech.com
>> alex at zivtech.com
>> office: (267) 940-7737
>> cell: (215) 866-8956
>> skype: zivtech
>> aim: zivtech
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Brian Vuyk<brian at brianvuyk.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I should have added this to my prior email, but I didn't see it
>>> until
>> Alex's
>>> reply...
>>>
>>> Since the point is now to help folks get work and learn the trade,
>>> then
>> this
>>> isn't a certification program, but a course.
>>>
>>> I think these are two different concepts. There are several
>>> courses &
>> books
>>> available to teach Drupal, which new developers with any initiative
>> should
>>> already be looking up / researching. Why would we tie this to an
>>> official
>>> certification that is just going to inconvenience other veteran
>> developers?
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> Victor Kane wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am a socialist, and I believe the workers should own the means of
>>>> production. Then it could make sense to form some kind of
>>>> certification
>>>> program to help folks get work and learn the trade when they are
>>>> new,
>> and to
>>>> create sustainable forms of communication so that those seeking
>>>> services
>> are
>>>> well served, and that the needs of the people are truly met.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> consulting mailing list
>>> consulting at drupal.org
>>> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> consulting mailing list
>> consulting at drupal.org
>> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>>
>>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:09:19 -0600
> From: Greg Knaddison <Greg at GrowingVentureSolutions.com>
> Subject: Re: [consulting] Drupal Certification
> To: "A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal service/hosting
> providers" <consulting at drupal.org>
> Message-ID:
> <3861c6770908070809n3f2740b9n25eb89ac58d1835e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg<Alex at zivtech.com
> > wrote:
>> But still, what about a Drupal Developers/Shops Guild?
>
> 3-4 years ago folks started down this path. It died fairly quickly.
> I don't think it would actually be helpful at solving the problems it
> sets out to solve, though maybe the market is different enough now in
> some way that it would be helpful.
>
> I'll maintain my previous stance: the best "certification program" we
> have is the drupal.org user profile.
>
> Cheers,
> Greg
>
> --
> Greg Knaddison | 303-800-5623 | http://growingventuresolutions.com
> Cracking Drupal - Learn to protect your Drupal site from hackers
> Now available from Wiley http://crackingdrupal.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> consulting mailing list
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> http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
>
>
> End of consulting Digest, Vol 43, Issue 22
> ******************************************
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