[consulting] Drupal workers' interests [was Drupal Certification]

Mon Aug 10 18:34:56 UTC 2009

What it all comes down to is how do we give potential clients the tools to
figure out who knows their stuff, what they know and maybe some guidelines
on what most are paying. This can be done through certifications, portfolios
or a third party company that evaluates shops and consultants. It is in
everyone's best interest (accept maybe people who don't like accountability)
to want something like this.  

The question becomes who will create something like this and how will it get
traction? I don't think the answer is the Drupal association OR any company
that provides services. This might be a great business opportunity for the
whole open source world. 

-Steve

Steve Kessler 

Denver DataMan 

303-587-4428 

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From: Victor Kane [mailto:victorkane at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:18 PM
To: sami.khan at etopian.com; A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal
service/hosting providers
Subject: Re: [consulting] Drupal workers' interests [was Drupal
Certification]

Microsoft workers won a historic union battle (organized in the writers
union) when Microsoft did not want to pay overtime to contracted workers.

just one example.

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Sami Khan <sami at etopian.net> wrote:

The quality of work is not directly contingent to whether or not the
workers are in labour unions -- perhaps partially contingent based on
whether lousy workers can easily be disposed of or not... but that
depends on the standards of the union. If at the founding of the union
you set a bar and say that if you do generally lousy work you can be
dismissed or have to be re-educated then you can control the quality of
work as well.

The point of unions though is to protect a market in favour of the
employees -- to the extent the market is under the control of all the
workers united. Do unions produce better work, perhaps or perhaps not.
Does the non-unionized worker like the a Chinese worker produce the best
products, or the safest, or is best for both the workers or consumers?
In their case, everyone belongs to the same union, hence they are in a
purely capitalistic environment. How does that fare for the average
Chinese worker?

I think however that there is no way to make a blanket statement. IT has
not had to deal with unions because it has been generally a high payed
sort of profession. Over time that's changing, to the point that it's
becoming more and more important due to the economic conditions,
outsourcing etc. for IT workers to protect their interests. If that also
means at the same time protecting quality, it can be done. That we want
to protect workers rights, but not at the quality of the product can be
a rallying cry for such a movement.

In the end any objectives can be met, they simply have to be defined and
power used creatively to reach a good compromise that serves those which
are affected by it... That's the point. Non-unionized workers can be
arrogant just as long as there is well-paying work for what they do. You
will not get the same arguments from anyone who is poor, broke, or whose
market has been cannibalized by opportunistic companies.

Regards,
Sami

On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 13:56 -0400, Ayen Designs wrote:
> Union labor means superior product? Not. I can buy a handcrafted
> motorcycle that's a better product than anything for sale in the
> store. I can buy a handcrafted bedroom set that's better than anything
> for sale in the furniture store. Here, I've lived in the northeast,
> where all construction and utility work is union, and the southeast,
> where it's not, and if there is any quality difference on my home,
> it's better in the southeast, at a fraction of the price. Home
> schooled and privately schooled (non-government) children do
> consistently better (here in the U.S.) in testing than those educated
> by union labor (although the government controlling the curriculum
> plays a part there), on and on. Unions might mean higher quality on an
> assembly line, but development is not an assembly line, the last time
> I looked. I'd like a good example of where creativity and intuition
> plays as much a role in the product as it does in development, rather
> than rote, and the end-product is demonstratively of higher quality
> because of a union.
>
> Victor Kane wrote:
>
>
> > A union contract?
> >
> >
> > All work done with union labor speaks of a superior quality.
> >
> >
>
> --
>
>
> Ayen Designs
> 388 Bullsboro Drive #105 . Newnan, Georgia 30263
> 404-271-9734
> ayendesigns.com
>
> Ayen Designs is a tradename of the computer services division of
>
>

> _______________________________________________
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