[consulting] "Socialist" created value-added list for capitalists $29.99/month; no socialist ranting

Sun Aug 22 21:54:15 UTC 2010

I'm confused. What is the consulting list for? No one is trying to stifle free speech but just trying to determine the correct content for this list. I think that others who have asked thought the list was for another reason.

Sami Khan <sami at etopian.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 16:23:46 -0400, "Andrew R. Kelly"
><arkelly at cognisync.com> wrote:
>> +1.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We're abandoning this list if this doesn't stop.
>
>Us "socialists" are forming a for-pay service (mailing list) for all the
>capitalists who don't wish to discuss important social issues on this list.
>It costs $29.95 per month. It has none of this socialist ranting against
>the virtues of capitalism that you don't want to read and only answers your
>questions. 
>
>It also has a nice monetized cost associated with it, because we wish to
>extract every dollar of value from all the value we add to your life. Our
>costs to house and feed ourselves and our families are rather massive, and
>we would like to do that.
>
>All of us socialists who answer your questions for FREE also enjoy our
>FREE speech; aint that a bitch? 
>
>If you want a capitalist list, we would be happy to provide one for a nice
>fat fee! Else, quit trying to stifle free speech or leave. We are competent
>enough to help ourselves... We created Drupal, we write the code, we know
>our shit!
>
>Sami
>
>
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Andrew
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: consulting-bounces at drupal.org
>[mailto:consulting-bounces at drupal.org]
>> On Behalf Of David Hazel
>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 1:17 PM
>> To: sami.khan at etopian.com; A list for Drupal consultants and Drupal
>> service/hosting providers
>> Subject: Re: [consulting] American Labour Laws & Future of Labour
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Heinz you've been misinformed regarding this list.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> It's not the "consulting" forum. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> It's the "my country/government/social agenda/values" are better than
>your
>> "country/government/social agenda/values" rant forum. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> But don't feel bad, I think most of us inadvertently signed up to the
>wrong
>> list. Maybe someone should fix the title.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> But that's just my delusional two cents (or whatever the appropriate
>> denomination for your preferred currency is).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -Dave
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Sami Khan <sami at etopian.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 11:30:37 -0400, "Heinz D. Wegener"
>> <heinz at simplexcreative.com> wrote:
>>> It's amazing to me how much this "consulting" forum is used to debate
>>> socialism vs. capitalism. Socialism is completely counter-intuitive to
>>> being a consultant. Being a consultant implies that you are interested
>> in
>>> finding jobs that will make you money so that you can support your
>> family.
>>> You are participating in capitalism. This hatred of corporations is
>>> foolishness. Success is not evil. Profit is not evil.
>> 
>> If the world was as simple as you make it out to be, and all these ideas
>> and thoughts can simply be resolved by consulting a few history books
>and
>> chanting some mantras about how great everything is... then I might
>agree
>> with you. The real world is a complex place, if you look around a bit
>> outside of your own life and maybe your circle of friends -- or if you
>have
>> ever been down on your luck, you would understand.
>> 
>> The US has a large underclass, approximately 40 million people; these
>> people live below the poverty line. The ideas and the policies are
>largely
>> to blame for these people being put in their position and not being
>> "successful". Profits are not the problem, but when 30% of the economy
>is
>> based on financial products for simply allocating money, something is
>> definitely wrong there.
>> 
>> If the things continue to go the way that they have been, this
>underclass
>> will grow and there is no guarantee that you or someone you care about
>> won't end up in it. Entrepreneurship is contingent upon the economy, and
>> the economy is contingent upon the middle class for people such as
>> yourself. Supporting policies that increase the size of the middle class
>> and make sure that they have enough money, guarantee that there are
>> opportunities to be had. That's the basics. Beyond that there are
>questions
>> of morality. Is success for some necessary, sure. But to what extent?
>> Unlimited profits? What if that means that the size of the underclass
>> grows, from 40 million to say 80 million or above. Is that a good way to
>> support "success"?
>> 
>> There are some who simply debate to win... that is not the aim here. The
>> aim is to explore where one stands and see where there are in relation
>to
>> everyone else. In doing that we create possibilities for futures, rather
>> than leaving that task to those who are "successful"... because all that
>> they want is to be more "successful". Which means that they want the
>> underclass size to grow.
>> 
>> You are simply self-concerned with your life, and because things are
>good
>> for you and those that you care about, you rather ignore that there are
>any
>> problems... That sort of reactive auto-control approach is what put us
>in
>> the economic situation that we are in right now.
>> 
>> 
>>> My father and his family did not emigrate from Germany to America to
>>> experience despair and normalcy. They came with hope, and they had
>> nothing.
>>> They were hard working people with a desire to succeed in one of the
>> best
>>> countries in the world. My father was 6-years-old when they came to
>this
>>> country. He worked his ass off with the goal of becoming successful and
>> was
>>> motivated to do so partially because kids would call him a Nazi in
>> school
>>> just for being from Germany. And guess what? He succeeded. And guess
>> what
>>> else? He is the most generous, giving man I know, and has an amazing
>> heart
>>> for people. There's your evil capitalist.
>> 
>> The Germans are doing fine at this point. So you would be fine whether
>you
>> were in the US or in Germany; probably better if they are from West
>> Germany. Anecdotes like this about the reaffirmation of American Dream
>tell
>> us nothing about the actual situation on the ground. Certain statistics
>> paint a different picture. The truth lies somewhere in between.
>> 
>> If you want some anecdotes of people who are not as lucky as you or your
>> family, look here:
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/invisiblepeopletv
>> 
>> 
>>> My father-in-law experienced the same type of success after his family
>>> fled from Cuba. Both he and my father both become owners of successful
>>> companies. With socialism comes the death of that hope that most
>> immigrants
>>> had back in the 40's and 50's and still have today.
>> 
>> I think that hope is dead already and it's because of the financial
>> banksters, who are motivated by capitalism. It may be the case that
>those
>> times are gone for good and we will have to settle for some more social
>> solutions or else face being in the underclass of capitalism.
>> 
>> 
>>> Study your history, and
>>> learn the truth yourself. Entrepreneurs were, and continue to be, some
>> of
>>> the primary contributors to America's success.
>> 
>> I am happy for your family. I also don't support totalitarian Cuba, or
>any
>> totalitarian socialist economy.
>> 
>>>
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