[consulting] Suggestion for Dries and Moderators: New Politics List

[Sami Khan]

On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:58:23 -0600, Adam Mordecai <mordecai at advomatic.com>
wrote:
> Sami,
> 
> The things you are discussing and arguing about are bigger than the
> consulting list. They are admirable, but they would be more appropriate
in
> an actual Drupal group focused on unionizing and labor and employee
rights.
> Then people who wanted to discuss and actually ORGANIZE around the issue
> could. I'm a big fan of unions myself, (and many of my clients are
unions),
> but yelling past each other about socialism doesn't actually do anything
to
> actually help workers. nothing I've seen in the last few months on this
> list actually had any tangible results. It was just sound and fury
> signifying nothing. 

> Drupal group focused on unionizing and labor and employee rights.

There is no such group. If there were then you _might_ have a valid point.
If you would lobby to create one and then populate it with people of whom
you speak, I might believe you. But there isn't and why is this addressed
to just me. Please address it to all the other people whose ideologies you
do agree with as well... who have been arguing with and against me.

 
> I would love to be able to point people who write about being treated
> poorly by company or client to Sami's working group at GDO where they
could
> find tangible answers about what recourse they had. I'd even be glad to
> recruit some actual union organizers to join the group and help push the
> cause further. 

Agreed.

> 
> But these ongoing debates do nothing but clog the list up and make using
> the list for TANGIBLE best practices harder. It stifles list growth when
> people see 30 threads on socialism vs capitalism, and only 1 on how to
get
> their Drupal business going. 

I have yet to see where people were not getting their questions answered
because of the horrible long evil threads. I see absolutely no proof of
what you speak, whatsoever. How many poor souls have you personally helped
with the problem that you are so admirably attacking? I have in the past
week helped a Russian with the exactly problem that you mentioned. I in
fact got that thread started and many people answered after that. I have
further pointed an Indian to the Development mailing list.


> My moderation idea is not implying all emails have approval before going
> on list, it's more moderators warn people if they are getting way off
> topic, make recommendations for better places to post on certain issues,
> put people on probation for repeated abuses, and worst case scenario,
boot
> people when all else fails. 

Yes people need warning that this is about politics. As that does not
affect their lives at all... Like seriously, there is an ideological
problem with the way that you are perceiving the world. It is hidden in a
rhetoric of niceness and understanding. But ultimately the effect is the
same, to shut the doors of discourse in the name of order and not to
pollute the minds of the poor peasants with the ideas that might get them
organized. While at the same type saying, oh no we are not against free
speech... Bullshit. This is why ideologies by the way fail. Because the
religious zealots have already decided on the position and create baseless
rhetoric to defend them; and shut down any sort of discourse that
challenges them in the name of order.

The majority of the group has more or less spoken. I was on topic, perhaps
borderline, but on topic. I regret nothing! Further, if you wish to create
such a mailing list, I would be happy to participate on that as well. Until
then, long live free speech!


> Adam Mordecai
> Partner - Advomatic, LLC
> 
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> 
> On Aug 22, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Sami Khan <sami at etopian.net> wrote:
> 
>>> This list aims to connect Drupal consultants, to share ideas  
>>> and experience amongst Drupal consultants, to obtain feedback from  
>>> Drupal consultants, and hopefully, to grow the number of Drupal  
>>> consultants. 
>> 
>> When all else fails, blame the other side for being off topic.
Excellent,
>> and I will now offer a rebuttal. What we are discussing is in the realm
>> of
>> "talking shop" as business is directly effected by the economy and
>> politics. Consultants are potentially future employees or if they are
not
>> still concerned with how much business they are getting, the terms of
the
>> business, health insurance issues, contract disputes all of which fall
>> within the realm of unions, labour relations, employee rights, and so
on.
>> Whatever politics is involved with that is then contingent to the
>> business
>> that these consultants are doing. As consultants they should know what
>> they
>> options are on whether or not to unionise, how they will be treated as
>> employees, and or subcontractors.
>> 
>> There are players in the Drupal field who monopolize consultants. There
>> are predatory companies that don't give a shit about employees and
abuse
>> their employees to make a buck. So when we start talking about Brittany
>> Spears you can chime in again about the politics of the "Bad Apples"
who
>> wish to ruffle some feathers and bring the no good unions into the
>> business. 
>> 
>> Sami
>> 
>> 
>> If you went
>>> in the Drupal Dev IRC room and never stopped talking about how awesome
>> the
>>> latest Britney Spears album is, chx would kick you out, 
>> 
>> Now you are arguing to absurdity.
>> 
>>> not because he
>>> hates your ideas (though he probably does), but because its not
>> appropriate
>>> to talk about Britney's awesome new album there. The appropriate place
>> for
>>> that is #drupal-crappypopmusic.
>> 
>> Yes, your motivations, however are quite different!
>> 
>> Sami
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> 
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