[development] Gerhard, Kjartan, Steven... please explain better

[Robert Douglass]

Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
> The actual proposal was actually brought up by somebody else and was 
> to completely remove the sandboxes. I opposed this and hence see it as 
> a bit ironic that you mention me first...
>
Let me be the first to thank you.

>> Usually in a case like this, one side of the story isn't fully 
>> understood. I have to admit that I still don't understand what is so 
>> bad about the sandboxes that makes the people involved with 
>> infrastructure hate them. I use my sandbox only infrequently but am 
>> very glad it is there.
>
> Why? A recent commti you did was your memcached code. Does this need 
> to be in a sandbox? Shouldn't this rather be an attachment to an issue 
> or even a project?
>
Possibly. But if I create a project called "memcache", check in my alpha 
code, and then don't touch it again for the rest of my life, that will 
be a real hassle for someone who wants to write a better memcache module 
in the future. By putting it in my sandbox I am deliberately saying 
"Beware! The odds of this code being crap are 98/100"

> As far as I see it there are the following use cases for sandboxes 
> that don't fit the current rules:
>
> - share some code snippet (Karoly, Goba)
> - develop patches for contrib modules
>
> Of these only the last one needs (IMO) revision control and we could 
> amend the rules to allow for this. For the first use cases a file 
> upload to an issue or the snippet repository in the handbook should be 
> fine. It is actually better there because it can be more easily found.
>
Yes I agree with your points. There are cases where uploaded code 
snippets are more useful than code snippets in a sandbox.

>> The work that goes into Drupal.org infrastructure is chronically 
>> under-appreciated, and if the sandboxes are a special burden that I 
>> (we) haven't recognized, it would help the conversation to find that 
>> out.
>
> They are simply uncontrollable, nobody is really accountable for the 
> stuff in there etc. 
If this is a problem I don't see that moving the code to any other 
location will fix it. A code snippet uploaded to an issue is just as 
much a danger as that in a sandbox, with the exception that more people 
(who don't have CVS skills) will see it, download it, try it and break 
things with it. In a way the sandbox is nicely insulated from the normal 
Joe user who is feeling daring and wants to become a support case today 
- "help, I broke my site! what do I do now?"

> And most of the stuff is crap that nobody will understand, ie is 
> completely undocumented and thus unusable by anybody but the author.
>
Again, the proposed fix does nothing to solve this problem, in my opinion.

I maintain that the very best way to use the sandbox is to identify the 
things that are absolutely forbidden (non GPL code, non Drupal stuff, 
dangerous or subversive code etc.), and let the people using them decide 
what the best use is. People are innovative and creative.

cheers,

Robert