[development] Patches 4.8 - New Theme

[Mark Fredrickson]

Could we kindly bump this conversation to groups.drupal.org?

A tables vs. css debate is out of line for the development mailing list.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with any position -- let's just argue
them elsewhere.

Thank you,
-Mark


On 7/11/06, Laura Scott <laura at pingv.com> wrote:
> I would like to pipe in here with a dissent. While it's a nice idea
> that design is 100% CSS, the simple fact is that is not the case, and
> never will be, with any dynamic CMS. You need other coding skills in
> order to call up the content, or simply manage the content that is
> pushed at you.
>
> Not only that, until we have 100% CSS-compliant browser usage out
> there, the real world will not cooperate with 100% CSS themes except
> for the kinds of layouts that lend themselves to the CSS logic in
> ways IE doesn't break. (I'll just leave alone the religious arguments
> about CSS-only layouts.)
>
> I agree 100% that Drupal needs some sexy themes.
>
> I also agree that Drupal needs to focus on code base and implementing
> a really smart theming system (phpTemplate2?) as was hinted at in the
> global skypecast echofest.
>
> As I see it, these are two very important goals that are equally
> important, imho, each for its own reasons -- sharp design because,
> right or wrong, design is the #1 way people judge a website's
> credibility, and solid code because we want to have a theming system
> that provides for the most flexibility, modularity and theming power
> for the designer -- but these are goals that do not come from the
> same place, and therefore can only converge in a kind of development
> tango dance.
>
> In other words, it will take some cooperation and communication while
> pushing in both directions. Pushing on one while ignoring the other
> would be nothing but missed opportunity, in my view.
>
> Aside: Getting beyond the One Theme To Unite Them All notion, I would
> even suggest that we consider opening up the theme garden (or some
> variant on it) to enable non-CVS contributions to Drupal, in order to
> make it easy for designers to contribute all sorts of designs. (In
> other words, design the theme development side to afford design
> contributions.)
>
> Laura
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2006, at 2:34 AM, Fouad Riaz Bajwa wrote:
>
> > Content Management Systems are separation of content from design.
> > Design is
> > always managed through CSS. All designers should be aware of this
> > fact in
> > case of Drupal. This gap will always exist between designers and
> > developers
> > and the only way to overcome this gap may be that the design should
> > be 100%
> > controlled by CSS and that is already being done through
> > phptemplate, what
> > you can control through phptemplate is that what shows what and
> > where and
> > how can you be more specific with certain areas or spice em up.
> >
> > Your dream will always be a bit of imagination. Drupal is hitting that
> > mainstream activity where designers do their design part and
> > programmers or
> > configures connect the the UI to Drupal.
> >
> > CSS us the only way forward otherwise learn PHP and API Callups/
> > Callbacks!
> >
> > Regards
> > -----------------------
> > Fouad Riaz Bajwa
> > www.fossfp.org
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: development-bounces at drupal.org [mailto:development-
> > bounces at drupal.org]
> > On Behalf Of sime
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:53 AM
> > To: development at drupal.org
> > Subject: [development] Patches 4.8 - New Theme
> >
> > (First rant)
> >
> > While everyone is discussing whether a "3-column CSS layout
> > template for
> > developers" is achievable - I think this development process arse-up.
> > Discussing implementation issues in absence of something to
> > implement is
> > wasting time.
> >
> > Our trialling users, Fantastico users, non-techie administrators, they
> > want a new "sexy" theme as one of the defaults. For that reason, the
> > focus has to be on the design first, and therefore we the tools are
> > Photoshop, Fireworks or GIMP - *not* CSS and HTML. I'm sure we'd
> > have 10
> > great candidates designs within a week if an announcement went in the
> > forums. Or let's just expand on a great looking Wordpress theme. Or
> > let's just have a vote on the best looking contrib theme.
> >
> > After we have the design, we can knock ourselves out with the
> > implementation. Until then the clock's ticking, and rehashing ALA
> > articles is not going to get us anywhere.
> >
> > Cheers, Simon
> >
> >
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>
>