[development] Drupal 5 Themer Pack

[Earl Miles]

Bèr Kessels wrote:
> Then I fail to see how you want to do this. Patches for core to improve themes 
> means waiting till 6. A base theme is not what you want either. But more 
> important: I fail to see why my project is not what you really want. Is it 
> merely the fact that I try to create a consistent, structured HTML and that 
> we need to change what core outputs to get there? Or is there anyhting else I 
> can do to make you like my project a little more? For example changing the 
> name and stop calling it a theme?

Well, you're including a page.tpl.php, a node.tpl.php, etc. These are also 
things I want to avoid. I don't want to include any .tpl.phps that are already 
provide by phptemplate.engine.

And I don't dislike your project. I just see this project and your project as 
having a fundamentally different direction. Unfortunately, in my desire not to 
have what I'm trying to put forward here brushed aside, I have understated the 
importance of your direction:

Cleaning up the XHTML is a really good idea. The thing is, I think that's 
primarily core work. Or something that could be done as an 'alternatives'. At 
which point, then this project and sympal theme begin to really come together.

However, I don't think it benefits themers to have changed XHTML be the primary 
focus of the themer pack. I think it's very important that the output this 
delivers be precisely the output Drupal delivers, and let the themer decide if 
they are going to change that. Using these template files, changing that XHTML 
should be a relatively simple task.

Once this project has reached its first stage, we can begin submitting patches 
to core, where the logic we separated for this pack can be integrated into 
Drupal 6. If we do our jobs right, then maybe Drupal 6 doesn't need the themer 
pack, and this project becomes a stepping stone onto something grand. Or we 
don't do our jobs well enough for core, but we spur some ideas, and maybe it's 
not until Drupal 7 or 8 where the pack becomes obsolete. Either way is 
perfectly okay.

Maybe the real issue here my believe that focussing on the XHTML is the wrong 
place to start. I want to focus with the separation of logic and presentation, 
and IMO it's very important to not change the fundamental output while doing 
that. It becomes trying to accomplish too many things in one step.

1) create the .tpl.php and template.php files.
2) separate the the logic from the presentation while preserving the output.
3) release into the wild; let themers begin to use the code.
4) Figure out a way for core to utilize these templates too, without having the 
10% speed hit. Once they're in core it won't be so much with the 
pick-and-choose, they have to all be there.
5) let XHTML experts look over these; make changes, and submit the XHTML 
changes as core patches; because now their changes will primarily be template 
changes which are easier for non PHP programmers to deal with, and willing 
developers or the combination developer/themer can submit patches on their behalf.