[development] Menu feature -- can we lose this, please?

Bèr Kessels ber at webschuur.com
Tue Mar 6 12:09:45 UTC 2007

Answering two at once :-)

Op dinsdag 6 maart 2007 12:02, schreef Dries Buytaert:
> Ber -- I can't grok your e-mail.  Can you elaborate (based on facts  
> rather than vague metatalk!), please?  Thank

It is not vague. But the main point /is/ metatalk. Feel free to put on 
horeseflaps and focus on technical aspects, though. I am only trying to get 
the bigger picture right, first. Its my prefered way of working: to know 
where I am heading: to have the theory and architecture right (I am not 
saying this is not done in this case, I merely see a big potential problem, 
because of lack of knowledge from anyone on this point).

SO: All I am saying (and really nothing more) is: Don't dive headfirst into a 
new/different access model for Drupal without knowing where you are heading!

Op dinsdag 6 maart 2007 11:19, schreef Robert Douglass:
> Bèr, I don't understand why hierarchical permissions and role
> permissions can't be mixed. Could you elaborate, and cite some of the
> sources of wisdom you're alluding to?

Basically there are three main security/permission concepts in use: 

RBAC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-based_access_control
CAP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability-based_security

Mixing these very often results in what is called "Confused Deputy Problem" 

More "wisdom" in this Must-read: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/book.html
Its written in a very accessible way, and it teaches you a LOT you should know 
if you are using machines (computers) for your work.

Many times it is repeated in that book, that the *model* should be correct. 
And clean. And understood. Example chapter 4.4.6: «  Mixing all these 
different models of computation together has resulted in chaos. Some of their 
initial assumptions still apply partially, but none of them applies globally 
any more. The Internet now has hundreds of millions of PCs and workstations, 
millions »

And yes. Again: this /is/ fuzzy metatalk. But unless we get the architecture 
right this time The New Menu System[tm] will be only that: "new". It won't 
be "better" or "more secure". The old menu system had a good access 
architecture, not perfect: but in order to improve it, merely stirring 
everything upsidedown is not the solution. Improving it -- is. And sorry, no, 
I have not the slightest idea how to achieve that in Real PHP Code (or 
patches); luckily its a good thing that developing a CMS is not just about 

Drupal, Ruby on Rails and Joomla! development: webschuur.com | Drupal hosting: 
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