[development] RFC: drupal as a moving target

[Steven Peck]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
<mail at webthatworks.it> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:48:53 -0700
>
> Earl Miles <merlin at logrus.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote:
>  > > It doesn't work for me. I don't want and I can't get so involved
>  > > in Drupal core dev. It is over my possibility.
>
>  > Drupal is a meritocracy. In general, those who do very much resent
>  > being told what to do by those who don't do. If you are firmly in
>  > the camp of don't do, that also puts you in the camp of "doesn't
>  > get to tell the rest of us what to do."
>
>  So you'd say that an engineer doesn't have the right of proper
>  medical care cos he is not a doctor and doctors don't have the right
>  to use cars cos they are not engineers?

What a completely off topic and not relevant argument.  I am not a
mechanic yet the state requires I have a license to drive or bad
things will happen to me (bad == fine, jail, etc).  I don't think it
is in the best interest for us to require a web developer license to
use or install Drupal though it is an interesting thing for you to
propose.

>  I'd say that demand and offer of a proper API go together.

You would but you have already clearly stated you are not going to do
a thing to help so really, just noise now.

>  As much as Drupal becomes more mature the group of people in contrib
>  will diverge from the group of people in core, and I'd consider this
>  good on many sides.
>
>  I'm not accusing anyone of making Drupal crap cos it is a moving
>  target. This is what is perceived by many... and not just cos the
>  documentation plainly say so.

Who says Drupal is crap?  You?  Why say that?  How did that get into
this conversation?  Why would it be relevant if there will be no forth
coming code to de-crapify things?  Now it's noise and name calling.

>  If what you keep on saying is that you can have an impact on core
>  just if you're a core dev... well I'm going to switch to another
>  framework.

This is wordplay.  I do not code yet I know for a fact I have an
impact of core development.  I have this impact through participation,
feedback, testing and involvement.  And I don't code.  Really.  Not in
almost  years.

What Earl said (and me too) was that in order to have an impact you
must participate not point and demand others do.  There are people who
work strongly and primarily in core development and testing.  This is
true.  However there are hundreds of people who just contribute one
line of code.  There are hundreds of others who have tested something
in core.  Currently there is one gatekeeper, Dries.  There will be
another soon enough but other then that, anyone can contribute.  They
can contribute code, reviews, effort that requires involvement.
Hundreds did for d6.  I am confident hundreds more will for D7.

>  But we keep on reasoning on hyperbole and it looks it doesn't help.
>
>  You'd adjust your communication now for what you're planning
>  tomorrow, cos the people deciding if they are willing to invest in a
>  10K lines module they would like to know what will happen tomorrow.
>
>  And I don't think anyone is willing to scare off someone that is
>  going to write a 10K line module just because he doesn't get involved
>  in core dev. And anyway it seems that core decisions are made among a
>  10-20 people.

See now, what is this?  This is one of those 'what if' emotional
blackmail/threat things that are false justifications for arguments.
What if someone... was willing to save us if we did as we were told?
What if someone... would invest in Drupal if only we gave up
'something' or change 'something else'

What if hundreds of people contributed code today?  They do.
What if hundreds of people contributed reviews today?  They do.

>  I'd like to know the experience of people behind ubercart or
>  ecommerce, i18n, views, panels...
>

Well, Earl is the guy behind Panels and Views so you know what he
thinks already.  I am reasonably sure that the i18n and ecommerce guys
(being very long term contributors and having read their blogs)
understand how their activities are shaping core development.  I met
the ubercart folks and they are blending in nicely and figuring out
how to influence things through action. involvement and participation,
but we'll have to see what they say.

>  --
>  Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
>  http://www.webthatworks.it

Best of luck,
Steven Peck
-sepeck
http://www.blkmtn.org