[development] #drupal and #drupal-contribute split (Was: Re: Proposal: Move all dev support off this list to new StackExchange site)

Fri Mar 18 20:12:40 UTC 2011

As a developer of several contrib modules (previously including
taxonomy_menu, a top 100 module) I agree.  I'm not part of the *in* crowd
and not allowed the #drupal-conttribute and do feel like an outsider.

Not even letting people listen to your conversation kind of makes you look
like a bunch of elitist.

Another example is the creation of the D8 branch.  Think of the lost
opportunity to share this moment with nearly 4000 other Drupalers.  Instead
we got a tweet and a screenshot.  I could feel the excitement of the people
in the pictures and really wanted to be a part of that as I'm sure many
others did.

I feel like I'm on double-secret probation.

Cheers,
Neil

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Angela Byron <drupal-devel at webchick.net>wrote:

>
> On 2011-03-18, at 8:53 AM, Daniel F. Kudwien wrote:
>
> I agree with Angie, Cameron, and Karen.  Just like we have
> #drupal-contribute, we could also need a clearly separated mailing list for
> all topics focusing on Drupal contributions.  That is, regardless of
> whether
> core or contrib, or code or usability.
>
> The separation in IRC has proven to be a good idea, as far as I can tell.
>
>
> Warning: This is an off-topic rant.
>
> No. This is actually one of the most damaging things we have *ever* done to
> our community's health, both in the short term, but especially in the long
> term.
>
> The moment that Drupal 7 came out, this is what was happening in
> #drupal-contribute, faster than the speed of light:
>
> 10:20:17 PM dmitrig01: dries++
> 10:20:17 PM davereid: drupal7++
> 10:20:17 PM bellHead: beejeebus: Sure - that's the goal. LOC is a far
> easier metric.
> 10:20:17 PM ksenzee: liammcdermott: lol
> 10:20:17 PM Crell: everyone++
> 10:20:19 PM Crell: everyone++
> 10:20:20 PM dmitrig01: dries++
> 10:20:21 PM Crell: everyone++
> 10:20:21 PM carlos8f:
> http://drupalcode.org/viewvc/drupal/drupal/?pathrev=DRUPAL-7-0
> http://drupalcode.org/viewvc/drupal/drupal/?pathrev=DRUPAL-7-0
> http://drupalcode.org/viewvc/drupal/drupal/?pathrev=DRUPAL-7-0
> 10:20:21 PM liammcdermott: webchick++
> 10:20:22 PM Crell: everyone++
> 10:20:22 PM liammcdermott: webchick++
> 10:20:23 PM arianek: goodness you crazies
> 10:20:23 PM jacine: *hugs #drupal-contribute*
> 10:20:23 PM Crell: everyone++
> 10:20:25 PM Crell: everyone++
> 10:20:26 PM hejrocker: webchick++
> 10:20:26 PM Crell: everyone++
>
> Conversely, here's what was going on in #drupal:
>
> robbiethegeek [*~robbiethe at 12.88.235.74*] entered the room. (10:34:24 AM)
> awjr [*~arthur at rthrrchrds.com*] entered the room. (10:34:30 AM)
> V1ntage [*~chatzilla at 133.30-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be*] entered the
> room. (10:34:48 AM)
> Stalski [*~stalski at 78-21-58-227.access.telenet.be*] entered the room.
> (10:35:09 AM)
> ryanblair [*~ryanblair at 216.136.44.83*] entered the room. (10:35:13 AM)
> Stalski left the room. (10:35:18 AM)
> amye [*~amye at c-98-246-185-241.hsd1.or.comcast.net*] entered the room.
> (10:35:19 AM)
> Bes` [*~Guillaume at ax313-5-78-227-128-243.fbx.proxad.net*] entered the
> room. (10:35:20 AM)
> Stalski [*~stalski at 78-21-58-227.access.telenet.be*] entered the room.
> (10:35:25 AM)
> Haza`Aw is now known as Haza` (10:35:37 AM)
> Irishgringo [*~chatzilla at c-66-229-63-143.hsd1.fl.comcast.net*] entered the
> room. (10:36:13 AM)
> langworthy [*~langworth at 96.49.144.231*] entered the room. (10:36:39 AM)
> 10:36:40 AM awjr: if i have a module X that calls 'module_invoke_all( 'Y'
> )', and module X implements hook Y, will Y in module X get invoked?
> gua_ould left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 276 seconds). (10:36:44 AM)
> ryanblair left the room (quit: Client Quit). (10:36:56 AM)
> pwolanin [*~pwolanin at drupal.org/user/49851/view*] entered the room.
> (10:37:47 AM)
> arianek [*~arianek at S0106001b63f4b826.vc.shawcable.net*] entered the room.
> (10:38:03 AM)
> marsilainen [*~matt at 217.48.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com*] entered the
> room. (10:38:04 AM)
> arianek left the room (quit: Changing host). (10:38:07 AM)
> arianek [*~arianek at drupal.org/user/158886/view*] entered the room.
> (10:38:07 AM)
> stella [*~stella at 78.16.73.62*] entered the room. (10:38:33 AM)
> jjdonson [*~jjdonson at pool-108-41-8-217.nycmny.fios.verizon.net*] entered
> the room. (10:38:35 AM)
> churel_ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds). (10:38:39 AM)
> 10:39:04 AM darthsteven: Does a D7 issue that is about a test that would
> cause a fail if it were testing correctly count as a critical issue?
> iszak [*~iszak at unaffiliated/supavisah*] entered the room. (10:39:32 AM)
>
> It's impossible to understate how fundamentally damaging this shift is.
>
> We've relegated the architects, the builders, the collaborators, the
> "doers"—the people who fundamentally make the Drupal project what it is and
> are the heart and soul of our culture—to their own "sub" community in a
> hidden silo off to the side. We've taught newcomers to the project that IRC
> is the place to consume, to get help, to make demands, to *take*. And we've
> created both a physical and psychological divide between "us" and "them,"
> where it used to be all "us". And, most distressingly, there is no longer a
> pathway for going between "them" and "us" because most of "us" have long
> since stopped going to #drupal due to the volume of support that happens
> there now since there is no one left to enforce the culture of getting
> involved.
>
> We've repeated this "retreat into our shell" pattern over and over again.
> IRC (#drupal -> #drupal-contribute), mailing lists (development ->
> groups/issue queues), the forums (issue queues). What we're left with now is
> an entire "generation" of Drupal users who think Drupal.org is a place to
> *consume*, not a place to *participate*.
>
> In the end, I have absolutely no idea where Drupal 9 core/contrib
> developers are going to come from. And that is absolutely terrifying.
>
> -Angie
>
> And, fwiw, I "called" this inevitable outcome back in 2009 when this shift
> was proposed: http://drupal.org/node/634486#comment-2272630 Bleh. :(
>
>
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