[support] Re: CVS account and need for a drupal desigchampion....

[Steven Peck]

You included in your email message hyperbole.  You made characterizations with leading questions that merely serve to inflame and exacerbate the situation then contribute towards a solution.  I, as part of the community working towards improving it, felt attacked by your forwarded message.
 
I don't understand why you make ME feel bad with the leading phrases in your complaints.  You started the conversation with the phrasing that you were being insulted.  You are not being insulted.  You never were.  You still aren't.
 
Again, you are reading into the message that which is not there.  I took the time to answer and explain that no one is getting in your way.  That people are working towards better solutions and that at least one of those answers was in the email you forwarded.  I explained part of how the current system works.
 
You characterize the 'system' as insulting or rude.  A large part of the 'system' as you put it is people.  A large part of the 'process' is manual.  There is no autonomous 'system' that sits in a vacuum and does 'things'.  People are working to make it better.  Perhaps you could have replied back to Gerhard and asked what you could do to help.
 
As to what to do in your situation?  I would have replied back and asked what was the next step.  Your original question appeared to have been answered.  Again, as indicated in the original message, Gerhard is working on a solution to automate this.  Until recently, it wasn't possible.
 
And finally once again, no one is insulting you.  No one is ridiculing you.  Gerhard did not.  I did not.  Again, you are portraying yourself as the victim when you are not.
 
I understand where you are coming from.  Perhaps (other than automating the process which you have already been informed is being worked on) you could suggest specific improvements and wording to the documentation to help others avoid the experiance.
 
Your phrasing was perhaps not the best way to introduce discussion about the issue you have experienced and how to work towards a process that helps improve that experiance for others.  I would suggest you start with Gerhard as he is one of those working on improving the process.  
 
-sp

________________________________

From: support-bounces at drupal.org on behalf of Isaac Horton
Sent: Sun 1/15/2006 1:29 PM
To: support at drupal.org
Subject: Re: [support] Re: CVS account and need for a drupal desigchampion....


i never said anyone (a person) is getting in my way.
im merely telling you all because im about to bail out... without giving my contributions to the community.
its not my intention. just the system appears to be set up that way...
I never said any person has been rude to me.. on the contrary...
but the system is rude to me... isnt that fair to say?
I see people requesting for more and better themes and when i try to volunteer/contribute. im not able easily..
the reason i forwarded this message to support is because this is a big enough issue for me to stop contributing.
im working right now with Kieran Lal to try to redesign the flow of the admin interface for the drupal community.
im not griping a diatribe! this is valid and you should really do your best to see where im coming from .
labeling me as someone who is using buzz words to get attention does nothing to address the issues im raising.
in fact your attitude is anything but understanding of my situation...

My question to the drupal community is what do you do when someone like me has a problem?
You said in your email steven that drupal is in need of volunteers..
hello... thats what im trying to do... and i cant.... 
is that not needed to be said?

i dont understand why you make me feel bad when all im trying to do is let you all know whats happening to me so WE can keep it from happening to other people....
read my email again if youre confused... im not blaming any person... but i am stating the truth of my experience... you can accept it or not... but its my truth regardless...
and the fact is im a good designer too, and it might even benefit to help me out a little to get on board.... 

right now im feeling attacked by your letter
oh well im still writing because i care about the WHOLE and i want others to be able to contribute easily too...
whats wrong with wanting all of that.
and why am i being ridiculed for giving feedback?
how do you expect to make the system better....
where am i supposed to put this message?
these are all unanswered questions by me...



Steven Peck wrote: 

	No, actually, it did not need to be said.  
	 
	Gerhard said in his message that he was writing a module to do this.  We suffer from a terminal lack of volunteers willing to do work of any type.  So some things get more attention when those willing and able have the time to do so.  Only in December did the complete infrastructure of Drupal.org finally get moved.  This infrastructure change itself is what has made it possible to even have this happen and took a few people a lot of man hours of work to accomplish.
	 
	These things take time.  They take human beings real hours and real days to do.   No one is trying to 'insult' you and I had to count to 10 a few times at your presumption that anyone was before I composed this message.
	 
	To be clear:  NO ONE IS DELIBERATELY GETTING IN YOUR WAY!
	 
	Using buzz word compliant terms like 'win/win' without offers to work/work/collaborate doesn't help.  Especially when nowhere in that polite message back to you did anyone tell you to go &^%$ yourself.  Using such inflammatory phrasing is an Internet troll trick to create a problem or pick a fight while portraying yourself as the victim.
	 
	Gerhard informed you in his polite message that he was working on this so obviously he cares, yet you launched into your diatribe anyway.
	 
	-sp
	 
	 

________________________________

	From: support-bounces at drupal.org on behalf of Isaac Horton
	Sent: Sun 1/15/2006 11:18 AM
	To: Gerhard Killesreiter; support at drupal.org
	Subject: [support] Re: CVS account and need for a drupal design champion....
	
	
	This is exactly the kind of response that leaves me wondering.....
	im just trying to get into the contributions.
	i can login via eclipse anonymously no problem.
	this raises a much bigger issue.
	.
	It works like this for me.. ive got x % of time to donate to the "drupal cause".
	so far for me 60% of x has been spent in frustration due to no cvs access, poor themeing structure and loose organizational support of design in the drupal community?
	how much can I endure, before ive become worn and jaded to whats really possible here?? (how many before me have just walked away after confronting such difficulty?)
	i feel like the type of contributions someone like me (a designer) can make is drastically limited because of the extra hoops I have to jump through. just to contribute..aka(volunteer)? im growing weary of trying so hard... 
	Its insulting and further incentive to use other tools that manifest a more win/win (timesaving)approach vs. the standard drupal approach that ive observed...."make it really hard, really really hard to contribute.... and if youre a designer.... well just go &^%$ yourself... and go away" (or be prepared to donate a vast amount of time to do something that other orgs have automated and appear to care more about.
	
	i like drupal. i want to help...
	but i can only "tread water"(keep it up) for so long while the system thats currently in place serves to suppress my motivation.
	Isnt there anyone in the Drupal Core team who "champions" the need for good design?
	will this ever be addressed?
	Does anyone even care?
	sorry for the gurmbles! but this needs to be said.......
	
	
	-Isaac
	
	
	
	Gerhard Killesreiter wrote: 

		Isaac Horton wrote: 
		
		

			Im just wondering what every happened to my cvs account request. supposedly i was added but when i try to login, i can only do it anonymously. 
			ive tried a million combination of my passcodes and now its been quite a few months and i still cant offer up the contributions Ive created? 
			I dont want to be a pain in the ass but is there any way you can reset my cvs account password????? 
			
			


		First of all: Which repository are you trying to access? Second: no, I can't reset the password, but I am writing a Drupal module that will allow you to do that after it is insallted on drupal.org. 
		
		Cheers, 
		   Gerhard 
		
		
		
		

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