Dries, Steef is hooking me up with the theme for istyledthis.nl When that happens I'm going to add some goodness to it. It'll be on themes.net, and I've set up the themeswitcher module (thanks alienbrain for the quick port) so people will be able to choose between the two themes. Excited and pumped. Trae On 10/3/06, Dries Buytaert <dries.buytaert@gmail.com> wrote:

On 03 Oct 2006, at 19:16, Trae McCombs wrote:

...

Currently, the Deliciously Zen theme is only set to work @ a fixed position, but of course the fluid one will be fixed along with other details. Farsheed and I (and others) will work to make sure it's something we can hopefully mostly all be proud of. :)

Let the voting begin!

I'll setup a poll when we're ready to. (I'll check with Steef first and stuff.)

-- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/

-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com

Both themes need some spit and polish, but they look good. Why settle for just one theme and an either/or choice? Why not include both? We always had more than one core theme.

You tell me how you can have TWO default themes for Drupal 5.0 and then I'll say, cool, ok. But until you can have that, you HAVE to pick one. I do agree that both should be included, and at this point I think that point is no longer moot. (Meaning, both will be included). What I'm trying to ascertain is, which should be the default theme. They both need more work, yes, I'm getting the istyledthis.nl code from Steef soon and that will be up on themes.net shortly. Oh, if anyone wants to figure out and help me find a way to make it so that the default theme could switch out between two different themes say ever 1min (cron job?) that'd be great. That way you'd get a 50/50 chance of getting either istyledthis.nl theme or the DZ theme when you visited themes.net Again, my main point is to find out which theme people feel will be best as the DEFAULT Drupal 5.0 core theme. :) The good thing is, no matter which way we go, I think it's going to be a win for the Drupal community. Trae On 10/3/06, Earl Miles <merlin@logrus.com> wrote:

Khalid B wrote:

...

Both themes need some spit and polish, but they look good.

Why settle for just one theme and an either/or choice?

Why not include both? We always had more than one core theme.

A. Men.

One awesome perfect core theme is not going to give us the real oohs and ahhs we want.

People talk about how ugly Drupal is. Well, we can show them both how beautiful Drupal is and how flexible Drupal is by giving multiple beautiful themes with stark contrasts. Who cares which on is truly default? Most users who install Drupal will click through all of the themes at least once.

Get them BOTH (or even more than the 2 -- I still say Lullabot should get to work on zen and zen-beach) core worthy and let's get as many of them committable as possible. Let users click through the themes and give awesome examples of how possible it is to make Drupal look different.

-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com

"Walt Daniels" wrote:

I am in the "I don't care what the default theme is" camp. I am not going to use the default theme unmodified for any site

Hoozah! Yes, agreed. Default schmefault. All this seeming competitiveness should be directed to making _many_ themes for Drupal 5.0 that are "pre-installed as default options." And, even in that case, any commercial or multi-site-making Drupal developer will build on, or recreate, any template to meet their own branding, marketing, communication and content needs. There is only a "default" theme for about 2 seconds in my own installation of Drupal sites. I instantly change every site [16 and counting] to our version of Chameleon anyway, just to provide a wireframe for beginning. Any argument over "oh, use my default" is only for bragging rights and not for any other purpose actually related to design or site building. The work is impressive and should be included in a bundle of pre-installed (default installed) templates. -- inkfree

"Jeff Eaton" wrote:

The default theme is, like it or not, 'the look of Drupal.' What identity it projects has a nontrivial impact on how the platform itself is perceived and used.

A fine point. Well said. To address that point, or rather to add to it, since it is central and meaningful... I would amend that to say that it is the "first look" of Drupal rather than "the look" of Drupal. And, because it is the important first look, it should be entirely functional and skeletal. There should be little or no "color, theme, scheme, artiness" going on. The user must add -- or choose -- that in a purposeful way. To do that, there should be a handful of pre-installed ready to go templates, with styles attached (i.e., 'themes') that the first-time installing user can switch to -- to get a sense of the range of possibility. So, I would propose, for lots of reasons (including a real "Oooh!" moment when the new first-time installing user can see the exact content they are looking at [the initial first page view immediately after an install]. Then, in the 'templates and themes' section of that first-page content, where there is already discussion of and links to template admin and downloads, we add a "Experiment with different templates and themes right here" drop-down menu, so the user can -- while looking at their first front page -- see the site change by selection. That would be truly inspiring for the first-time installing user. -- inkfree

All of this theme work for the 5.0 Drupal is great. Everyone who is working on the handful of default options for this improved Drupal should be congratulated. However (yes, there's a however), there is a strange tone creeping into this discussion. I "read" that tone as one of unhealthy "me versus you" competition and not an open, impartial dialog about what "theme" (arggh...template!) is best for Drupal users. Key word: Users. Some thoughts... (with no malice, just observation from this POV)... "Trae McCombs" wrote:

You tell me how you can have TWO default themes for Drupal 5.0 and then I'll say, cool, ok.

It was quite clear that the reference to 2 default themes was intended to imply "ships with more than one pre-installed selectable theme". Your reply seems a bit combative and and just a bit coercive toward "your" theme. [Or, Farsheed's theme, IIRC.]

What I'm trying to ascertain is, which should be the default theme.

Why are you trying to ascertain this? Why don't you allow the community to ascertain this, based on what they see (and not what they hear that they will see in the future)? I am not sure, Trae, that you can be a neutral, impartial advocate for the will of the community (or Dries). It seems clear -- from your "battle"-based web site and your comments -- that you have already "ascertained" what you want, and that is the theme you are helping with. Let the themes speak for themselves, when they are finished.

Oh, if anyone wants to figure out and help me find a way to make it so that the default theme could switch out between two different themes say ever 1min (cron job?) that'd be great. That way you'd get a 50/50 chance of getting either istyledthis.nl theme or the DZ theme when you visited themes.net

1. Randomness in "first displayed" does not have to be related to a 1-min changeover. 2. Time-based changes in a theme for a site a user is viewing is a really, really, really bad thing. Why would one want the entire view of the loaded browser page to just change automatically when one is viewing that page? It makes no sense. (Randomness in initial selection _does_ make sense and goes toward minimizing the appearance of a pre-determined prefernce on your part.)

Again, my main point is to find out which theme people feel will be best as the DEFAULT Drupal 5.0 core theme. :)

Yeah, we heard you the first 20 times. :)

The good thing is, no matter which way we go, I think it's going to be a win for the Drupal community.

I'm not sure so much talk of "battle royale" is good for the Drupal community. The word community has implications of reduced conflict, yet you seem to want to frame this as _your_ theme against others. Certainly polls and voting are okay, but when this is done, it really should be done in a context of equality, and not skewed toward one theme or the other. Drupal Users should be first and foremost in mind and _not_ Drupal theme makers and their personal needs. -- inkfree

"Trae McCombs" wrote:

...

However (yes, there's a however), there is a strange tone creeping into this discussion. I "read" that tone as one of unhealthy "me versus you" competition and not an open, impartial dialog about what "theme" (arggh...template!) is best for Drupal users. Key word: Users.

There are good things such as healthy competition.

"This war is unjust." "Well, there can be just wars." Okay. And. 8-/ Yes, of course there is "healthy competition". I said only that the kind of creeping tone that I was cautioning against seems to be trending toward the unhealthy variety of said "competition".

I am simply taking what I saw as a lack of progress and trying to help things go forward. If I am getting in the way of said progress, I'll gladly disengage in what I'm doing.

This, also, does not follow. I did not say "you" were getting in the way of progress, per se. I said that the addition of any suggestion of "me versus you" lobbying does not serve the Drupal community of first-timers -- the target audience for whatever is shown first on the screen. It's great that you are energizing movement on a new choice. I only urge that, at all times, you do not let your desire to help things go forward, or your desire to be validated for your efforts, outweigh the primary goal -- which is the ease of entry to and success of Drupal among first-time installing users. You're doing a fine job, Trae. (I know it's a little like drinking vinegar to hear some stranger's comments about your work, when you believe you've worked selflessly. Just watch the balance, keep your eyes on the prize, and rest assured that people are giving your work a very fair review...which I think they are...warts and all.) -- inkfree

On 04 Oct 2006, at 03:27, Earl Miles wrote:

Get them BOTH (or even more than the 2 -- I still say Lullabot should get to work on zen and zen-beach) core worthy and let's get as many of them committable as possible. Let users click through the themes and give awesome examples of how possible it is to make Drupal look different.

We'll see. Right now, none of the themes make me go 'WOW'. Maybe we won't include either of them. -- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/

Is this a copy of http://www.themespress.com/ ?

Kieran

As Steven stated, no it's based on the Deliciously Blue theme here: http://www.oswd.org/files/designs/2634/Deliciously_Blue/ Issue thread for new core theme(s): http://drupal.org/node/81217 Current demo of the Deliciously Zen theme: http://www.drupalart.org/drupal48/ Trae has come up with some ideas for this theme which he has put on http://themes.net and I am currently reviewing them. If you want to comment on Trae's revisions, please note them in the issue queue. Thanks! Farsheed __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com