that admin theme (from money/ work point of view), call for arms?
Hi there, First of all, i don't want to restart this endless debate, I just want to get those that are already behind this idea, going. :) I have just managed to set up a theme, for my sister. She is graphical designer so it had to be "nifty" or "appealing". But I refuse to get into flash and that crap. I managed to create a theme from scratch, that uses image galleries, books and a few static pages, in less then four hours. (will launch somwhere December) That is, four hours after I did the layout in inkscape and illustrator (just a drawing suite). So, that is four hours to: * make the HTML (validate) * test the CSS on various platform. (okay, ie5 (mac) is omitted, for now) * make that a theme But, off course, the admin part breaks horribly. Absolute positioning, hardcoded CSS dimensions and more of such 'niftyness' + Drupal admin don't go together, never. So why this mail? Not to tell you how quick I can theme ;) But because I have now proved, *to myself*, that I really need that admin theme. It shortens the themeing, or design of a site with over 750%. That is an afternoon vs a week! So, as of today, I really beleive that a lot of developers, themers and users can get their site online in *at least* half the time they would usually need, had they not have to bother abotu that admin part. And yes, I beleive it reduces usability, but if it obviously saves so much, I think it is worth that loss! Here is my plan: * get the amin part out of civicspace (Robert Douglas, did you not already do this?) * upgrade sections to ship as teh engine to achieve this admin-theme-magic. Anyone who wats to jump on this boat, please grab me on IRC, or by mail (ber curlything webschuur com). It should be a matter of hours to get this done. From then on we can look if more plp are interested, maybe even get all this shipped with core in a distant future. Bèr Oh and for the record: the HTML is non-table, the *complete* stylesheet (i trew out drupal.css, off course) is just under 120 lines! -- | Bèr Kessels | webschuur.com | website development | | Jabber & Google Talk: ber@jabber.webschuur.com | http://bler.webschuur.com | http://www.webschuur.com |
* upgrade sections to ship as teh engine to achieve this admin-theme-magic.
A one-line in hook_init() will do: if (arg(0)=='admin' || arg(2) == 'edit') $GLOBALS['custom_theme'] = 'admin'; or something very close to this. Regards NK
Op maandag 21 november 2005 00:05, schreef Karoly Negyesi:
A one-line in hook_init() will do:
if (arg(0)=='admin' || arg(2) == 'edit') $GLOBALS['custom_theme'] = 'admin';
or something very close to this.
nah, unfortunately its a littlebit more co+plicated user/ , node/add , comment, forums edit/moderation/edit, qnd so on. Drupal is a littlebit more complex then two locations.....
I'm in. The 4.7 update patch for section that I contributed is probably a little more complicated because it includes the block-like 'change the section if this PHP evals to true' functionality. With it, though, making a PHP block that test for all normal admin-only pages in one fell swoop is relatively simple. There are other wish-list features I'd love to tinker with, but I have the feeling that they don't fit in your vision for sections. ;) Even still, I think that it's tremendously powerful, especially when combined with drupal's ability for themes to inherit code and functionality from each other. (One main theme, with named sub-themes for each section, using sections.module to assign them, is VERY easy to pull off)... --Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Bèr Kessels [mailto:ber@webschuur.com] Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 1:09 AM To: development@drupal.org Subject: Re: [development] that admin theme (from money/ work point of view),call for arms? Op maandag 21 november 2005 00:05, schreef Karoly Negyesi:
A one-line in hook_init() will do:
if (arg(0)=='admin' || arg(2) == 'edit') $GLOBALS['custom_theme'] = 'admin';
or something very close to this.
nah, unfortunately its a littlebit more co+plicated user/ , node/add , comment, forums edit/moderation/edit, qnd so on. Drupal is a littlebit more complex then two locations.....
Op maandag 21 november 2005 00:16, schreef Jeff Eaton:
There are other wish-list features I'd love to tinker with, but I have the feeling that they don't fit in your vision for sections. ;) Even still, I think that it's tremendously powerful, especially when combined with drupal's ability for themes to inherit code and functionality from each other. (One main theme, with named sub-themes for each section, using sections.module to assign them, is VERY easy to pull off)...
Previously i wanteed sections to follow core (aka blocks) on the foot. But I don't see that evolvin as fast as we could. So i think we should turn it around, make a cool, nifty, fancy interface on sections and then see if someone feels like porting it to blocks :) Bèr -- PGP ber@webschuur.com http://www.webschuur.com/sites/webschuur.com/files/ber_webschuur.asc PGP berkessels@gmx.net http://www.webschuur.com/sites/webschuur.com/files/ber_gmx.asc
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 21 Nov 2005, at 10:20 AM, Bèr Kessels wrote:
So i think we should turn it around, make a cool, nifty, fancy interface on sections and then see if someone feels like porting it to blocks :)
I am going to be rebuilding core to have 'sections support' for 4.8 As per my presentation in my user configurable themes talk. - -- Adrian Rossouw Drupal developer and Bryght Guy http://drupal.org | http://bryght.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFDgYWggegMqdGlkasRAg1lAJ495xI8XzThuweEwCFJtGLiImZa/gCff4Vf mdvOfubQrEoPemS9ZVJBsZI= =ozCm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 21 Nov 2005, at 10:20 AM, Bèr Kessels wrote:
So i think we should turn it around, make a cool, nifty, fancy interface on sections and then see if someone feels like porting it to blocks :)
I am going to be rebuilding core to have 'sections support' for 4.8 As per my presentation in my user configurable themes talk.
+1 I'll be the first to work with Adrian to get this committed to core. :) -- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/
Op maandag 21 november 2005 10:20, schreef Dries Buytaert:
On 21 Nov 2005, at 10:20 AM, Bèr Kessels wrote:
So i think we should turn it around, make a cool, nifty, fancy interface on sections and then see if someone feels like porting it to blocks :)
I am going to be rebuilding core to have 'sections support' for 4.8 As per my presentation in my user configurable themes talk.
+1
I'll be the first to work with Adrian to get this committed to core. :)
So, Do i understand it correctly? Should I wait with the sections + admin theme for this core solution? What timeframe are we speaking? Section + admin thee is almost ready. Whaen do we expect this core thing to land? Bèr -- PGP ber@webschuur.com http://www.webschuur.com/sites/webschuur.com/files/ber_webschuur.asc PGP berkessels@gmx.net http://www.webschuur.com/sites/webschuur.com/files/ber_gmx.asc
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 21 Nov 2005, at 11:42 AM, Bèr Kessels wrote:
So, Do i understand it correctly? Should I wait with the sections + admin theme for this core solution? It means that I am planning functionality for core which will supercede the sections module, and probably make it obsolete (at least in it's current state).
What timeframe are we speaking? Section + admin thee is almost ready. Whaen do we expect this core thing to land?
This is meant for 4.8. We could build the interface for selecting sections in contrib right now, and then move it to core later. The interface I have in mind is a generic filter ruleset interface (a real one, not that horrible admin nodes filter), almost exactly like the one you see in just about every email client. I want to make the block configuration be attached to the 'section' (or 'layout' in my model). So when you set up a 'section', it controls the block layout, the theme selection, and any other settings related to display (the theme settings). We would ship with 2 layouts by default. The default layout (configurable via admin/display) and the admin layout (configurable via admin/layouts/<layout id>, if you have the layout module installed.) Not that many people need to be able to configure anything other than the default layout, and making the admin layout customisable, but not in core, and not requiring any code/ recipes is a better match for users. - -- Adrian Rossouw Drupal developer and Bryght Guy http://drupal.org | http://bryght.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFDgascgegMqdGlkasRAra2AKCK+rRNPRYUTV5d3BMxdotSTznacQCg2Tl5 R6/MfpO2truo0xi0l0KfeFQ= =wgAh -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
+1 for the concept. I'm doing this today for my sites. I use the sections module plus the admin theme from civicspace plus my controlpanel module and I agree it saves a lot when trying to theme your site. der On 11/20/05, Bèr Kessels <ber@webschuur.com> wrote:
Hi there,
First of all, i don't want to restart this endless debate, I just want to get those that are already behind this idea, going. :)
I have just managed to set up a theme, for my sister. She is graphical designer so it had to be "nifty" or "appealing". But I refuse to get into flash and that crap.
I managed to create a theme from scratch, that uses image galleries, books and a few static pages, in less then four hours. (will launch somwhere December) That is, four hours after I did the layout in inkscape and illustrator (just a drawing suite). So, that is four hours to: * make the HTML (validate) * test the CSS on various platform. (okay, ie5 (mac) is omitted, for now) * make that a theme
But, off course, the admin part breaks horribly. Absolute positioning, hardcoded CSS dimensions and more of such 'niftyness' + Drupal admin don't go together, never.
So why this mail? Not to tell you how quick I can theme ;) But because I have now proved, *to myself*, that I really need that admin theme. It shortens the themeing, or design of a site with over 750%. That is an afternoon vs a week! So, as of today, I really beleive that a lot of developers, themers and users can get their site online in *at least* half the time they would usually need, had they not have to bother abotu that admin part. And yes, I beleive it reduces usability, but if it obviously saves so much, I think it is worth that loss!
Here is my plan: * get the amin part out of civicspace (Robert Douglas, did you not already do this?) * upgrade sections to ship as teh engine to achieve this admin-theme-magic.
Anyone who wats to jump on this boat, please grab me on IRC, or by mail (ber curlything webschuur com). It should be a matter of hours to get this done. From then on we can look if more plp are interested, maybe even get all this shipped with core in a distant future.
Bèr
Oh and for the record: the HTML is non-table, the *complete* stylesheet (i trew out drupal.css, off course) is just under 120 lines! -- | Bèr Kessels | webschuur.com <http://webschuur.com> | website development | | Jabber & Google Talk: ber@jabber.webschuur.com | http://bler.webschuur.com | http://www.webschuur.com |
Bèr Kessels wrote:
Here is my plan: * get the amin part out of civicspace (Robert Douglas, did you not already do this?)
There are now two page.tpl.php files inside of the CivicSpace theme, the normal one and page_admin.tpl.php. I'm not sure this will be a terrible lot of help to you as the CS theme is a monster unto itself. However, instead of switching themes (which I don't like at all), you should consider using the _phptemplate_variables function in template.php. PHPTemplate comes with the little publicized but built-in ability to work with as many versions of any given file as you care to make. To avoid the baggage of maintaining multiple themes (bad), you can switch like this: // Set admin theme if (civicspace_is_admin()) { $vars['template_file'] = 'page_admin'; } This is a much better way than switching themes, imo. cheers Robert
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 21 Nov 2005, at 12:30 PM, Robert Douglass wrote:
However, instead of switching themes (which I don't like at all), you should consider using the _phptemplate_variables function in template.php. PHPTemplate comes with the little publicized but built-in ability to work with as many versions of any given file as you care to make. To avoid the baggage of maintaining multiple themes (bad), you can switch like this:
Heh. sometimes even I forget what cool sh*t I built into phptemplate =P - -- Adrian Rossouw Drupal developer and Bryght Guy http://drupal.org | http://bryght.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFDgaNVgegMqdGlkasRAog6AKCKf/XKKfQaz/NSMaL/e0TxrcD9ewCfZSeq 1ij1PWbYlanbWcx/DXYPAVY= =zMs+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Op maandag 21 november 2005 11:30, schreef Robert Douglass:
To avoid the baggage of maintaining multiple themes (bad), you can switch like this:
// Set admin theme if (civicspace_is_admin()) { $vars['template_file'] = 'page_admin'; }
This is a much better way than switching themes, imo.
My initial plan was, to just put a standalone theme "admin" on drupal So then you do not need to maintain more themes. All you need to do then is installa the admin theme and your own theme, and then configure sections A howto or recipe should suffice for the users. Bèr -- [ Bèr Kessels | Drupal services www.webschuur.com ]
Hey Ber, It would be cool if there was a way we could work some of this into the CivicSpace Theme. Are you saying you did a complete re-write of things from the ground up? If so, I would like to see what you did. Trae PS. #cstheme - the civicspace theme channel Bèr Kessels wrote:
Hi there,
First of all, i don't want to restart this endless debate, I just want to get those that are already behind this idea, going. :)
I have just managed to set up a theme, for my sister. She is graphical designer so it had to be "nifty" or "appealing". But I refuse to get into flash and that crap.
I managed to create a theme from scratch, that uses image galleries, books and a few static pages, in less then four hours. (will launch somwhere December) That is, four hours after I did the layout in inkscape and illustrator (just a drawing suite). So, that is four hours to: * make the HTML (validate) * test the CSS on various platform. (okay, ie5 (mac) is omitted, for now) * make that a theme
But, off course, the admin part breaks horribly. Absolute positioning, hardcoded CSS dimensions and more of such 'niftyness' + Drupal admin don't go together, never.
So why this mail? Not to tell you how quick I can theme ;) But because I have now proved, *to myself*, that I really need that admin theme. It shortens the themeing, or design of a site with over 750%. That is an afternoon vs a week! So, as of today, I really beleive that a lot of developers, themers and users can get their site online in *at least* half the time they would usually need, had they not have to bother abotu that admin part. And yes, I beleive it reduces usability, but if it obviously saves so much, I think it is worth that loss!
Here is my plan: * get the amin part out of civicspace (Robert Douglas, did you not already do this?) * upgrade sections to ship as teh engine to achieve this admin-theme-magic.
Anyone who wats to jump on this boat, please grab me on IRC, or by mail (ber curlything webschuur com). It should be a matter of hours to get this done. From then on we can look if more plp are interested, maybe even get all this shipped with core in a distant future.
Bèr
Oh and for the record: the HTML is non-table, the *complete* stylesheet (i trew out drupal.css, off course) is just under 120 lines!
Op maandag 21 november 2005 15:07, schreef Trae McCombs:
Are you saying you did a complete re-write of things from the ground up? If so, I would like to see what you did.
Noo, just a new theme. In phptemplate. Bèr -- | Bèr Kessels | webschuur.com | website development | | Jabber & Google Talk: ber@jabber.webschuur.com | http://bler.webschuur.com | http://www.webschuur.com |
Bèr Kessels wrote:
It shortens the themeing, or design of a site with over 750%. That's because you only made a quarter of a theme =P
That is an afternoon vs a week! That is something of a point though...
But I still think separate admin/editor themes are bad for usability, even if they fix current usability problems caused by layout issues. Swings, roundabouts, all that.
And yes, I beleive it reduces usability, Damn, I should read ahead before commenting.
Anyone who wats to jump on this boat Sounds like Adrian once again has the boat planned, if not built.
I suspect the best solution in usability terms would be something more like a desktop application, with pop-ups (maybe iframes) and all sorts of other stuff when you want to edit or make admin changes, but with current technologies doing that sort of stuff means supporting a narrow set of browsers. -- adrinux (aka Adrian Simmons) <http://adrinux.perlucida.com> e-mail <mailto:adrinux@gmail.com> AOL/Yahoo IM: perlucida, Microsoft: adrian@perlucida.com
participants (9)
-
Adrian Rossouw -
Adrian Simmons -
Bèr Kessels -
David Reed -
Dries Buytaert -
Jeff Eaton -
Karoly Negyesi -
Robert Douglass -
Trae McCombs