Hi there, First of all, i don't want to restart this endless debate, I just want to get those that are already behind this idea, going. :) I have just managed to set up a theme, for my sister. She is graphical designer so it had to be "nifty" or "appealing". But I refuse to get into flash and that crap. I managed to create a theme from scratch, that uses image galleries, books and a few static pages, in less then four hours. (will launch somwhere December) That is, four hours after I did the layout in inkscape and illustrator (just a drawing suite). So, that is four hours to: * make the HTML (validate) * test the CSS on various platform. (okay, ie5 (mac) is omitted, for now) * make that a theme But, off course, the admin part breaks horribly. Absolute positioning, hardcoded CSS dimensions and more of such 'niftyness' + Drupal admin don't go together, never. So why this mail? Not to tell you how quick I can theme ;) But because I have now proved, *to myself*, that I really need that admin theme. It shortens the themeing, or design of a site with over 750%. That is an afternoon vs a week! So, as of today, I really beleive that a lot of developers, themers and users can get their site online in *at least* half the time they would usually need, had they not have to bother abotu that admin part. And yes, I beleive it reduces usability, but if it obviously saves so much, I think it is worth that loss! Here is my plan: * get the amin part out of civicspace (Robert Douglas, did you not already do this?) * upgrade sections to ship as teh engine to achieve this admin-theme-magic. Anyone who wats to jump on this boat, please grab me on IRC, or by mail (ber curlything webschuur com). It should be a matter of hours to get this done. From then on we can look if more plp are interested, maybe even get all this shipped with core in a distant future. Bèr Oh and for the record: the HTML is non-table, the *complete* stylesheet (i trew out drupal.css, off course) is just under 120 lines! -- | Bèr Kessels | webschuur.com | website development | | Jabber & Google Talk: ber@jabber.webschuur.com | http://bler.webschuur.com | http://www.webschuur.com |