Quoting Warren Vail <warren@vailtech.net>:

Class Class Assignment Class Journal Class Note Class Portfolio Class Syllabus

The code for these modules has been removed from CVS years ago. They are not maintained here. That doesn't mean they are not maintained elsewhere. -- Earnie -- http://r-feed.com/ -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://www.4offer.biz/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/

To satisfy your GPL concerns, they are still in the public domain despite the possibility that they may not be hosted anywhere. Actually, they are still hosted, you just did not check the appropriate tag in CVS. Personally, I would focus my efforts on finding better solutions to use rather than outdated abandoned modules. On Jun 15, 2009, at 7:48 PM, Warren Vail wrote:

Guess I am curious how something in the public domain could be legally removed from the public domain? I would think that would be in conflict with the terms of the open source license.

Warren Vail Vail Systems Technology warren@vailtech.net (510) 444-5380

-----Original Message----- From: Earnie Boyd [mailto:earnie@users.sourceforge.net] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:36 PM To: support@drupal.org Subject: Re: [support] Class modules

Quoting Warren Vail <warren@vailtech.net>:

...

Class Class Assignment Class Journal Class Note Class Portfolio Class Syllabus

The code for these modules has been removed from CVS years ago. They are not maintained here. That doesn't mean they are not maintained elsewhere.

-- Earnie -- http://r-feed.com/ -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://www.4offer.biz/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/

-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]

-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]

Bill Fitzgerald wrote a 400 page book about using Drupal for education actually http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-for-education-and-e-learning/book . You should read back through the posts on the Drupal in Education group at http://groups.drupal.org/drupal-education . On Jun 15, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Warren Vail wrote:

Good input all, thanks for the clarifications, are there any other modules that fit the bill. I found one mention of LMS but only thing close was at source forge and didn't seem intended for drupal.

Warren Vail

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Zielinski [mailto:tony@webavant.com] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 7:55 PM To: support@drupal.org Subject: Re: [support] Class modules

To satisfy your GPL concerns, they are still in the public domain despite the possibility that they may not be hosted anywhere. Actually, they are still hosted, you just did not check the appropriate tag in CVS. Personally, I would focus my efforts on finding better solutions to use rather than outdated abandoned modules.

On Jun 15, 2009, at 7:48 PM, Warren Vail wrote:

...

Guess I am curious how something in the public domain could be legally removed from the public domain? I would think that would be in conflict with the terms of the open source license.

Warren Vail Vail Systems Technology warren@vailtech.net (510) 444-5380

-----Original Message----- From: Earnie Boyd [mailto:earnie@users.sourceforge.net] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:36 PM To: support@drupal.org Subject: Re: [support] Class modules

Quoting Warren Vail <warren@vailtech.net>:

...

Class Class Assignment Class Journal Class Note Class Portfolio Class Syllabus

The code for these modules has been removed from CVS years ago. They are not maintained here. That doesn't mean they are not maintained elsewhere.

-- Earnie -- http://r-feed.com/ -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://www.4offer.biz/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/

-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]

-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]

-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]

-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]

Hello, Warren, Some notes inline below: Warren Vail wrote:

Good sources, I have the book, found it lacking but didn't give any thought to why.

There are definitely things not to like -- in particular, I cringe at the sections on file/media handling, which has changed entirely since the book was written. I also cringe at the section on the text editors, as the WYSIWYG API is now a better choice if one must actually use a text editor. The CCK, Views, and OG sections, however, have all aged pretty well.

Closer look at this indicates a difference between what I am looking for and Mr. Fitzgerald's

Ach! Please, call me Bill.

focus. The book seems to focus on supplementing the classroom process, instead of trying to find an alternative to that process.

The beauty of Drupal is that it can be used to do both. In writing the book, I used the language of the classroom to describe the site build, as the vocabulary of the classroom will be more familiar to educators. However, the core building blocks discussed in the book (CCK, Views, OG) will work just as well in a more traditional classroom setting as in a learning environment with no hierarchy at all -- or, in any social context whether it's education-related or not. Although the book is geared toward education, the concepts apply equally well across the board. My personal preference is for a system of learning that is student/process driven, but that's a different conversation.

As a software developer, I have been part of, and victim of, a global effort to imbed knowledge in software to make it unnecessary to keep lots of developers on staff, allowing for offshore (cheaper) talent to supplant what I do.

My limited vision of what I needed would allow someone to create courses to teach the special knowledge of the courses author, then, the teaching would continue without the teacher's active participation.

Use OG. Override the presentation of group content via the theming layer. Depending on your specific needs, this could get you all of the way there. If not, it will highlight where you need custom code/additional modules.

Much of what I know about Drupal development was learned this way, from books just like Mr. Fitzgerald's, perhaps not as well done as formal teaching, but not as costly as formal classrooms.

This raises the question, will educators become the next victims of globalization?

No. People might try, and there will be lots of people attempting to sell us on a "more efficient educational system" but they should be rejected as the snake oil salesmen that they are. Learning takes time; reflection takes time; understanding takes time. Time can't be outsourced. Cheers, Bill

Warren Vail

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Zielinski [mailto:tony@webavant.com] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:45 PM To: support@drupal.org Subject: Re: [support] Class modules

Bill Fitzgerald wrote a 400 page book about using Drupal for education actually http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-for-education-and-e-learning/book . You should read back through the posts on the Drupal in Education group at http://groups.drupal.org/drupal-education .

-- Bill Fitzgerald http://funnymonkey.com FunnyMonkey -- Click. Connect. Learn. ph. 503 897 7160

Bill, I hope you understand my comments were only intended to show that I was looking for something different than what you very well demonstrated in your book. I will be consulting the book again, to be sure. I heard many positive statements about how outsourcing would never result in replacing really talented American know how, long before it actually began to happen. Even though it defied all logic, the dollar (and the bonus programs that drove decision making) pushed many jobs to India, China and Russia where there was a pretty good, if not adequate, talent pool to be had. When a manager could get a bigger bonus by hiring cheaper (maybe not quite as good) talent, the result was inevitable. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen, but I can almost guarantee that somewhere in states where education budgets are suffering heavy cuts, the idea is being considered. There are snake oil salesmen in every organization, it would seem. What I was actually looking for was a system that would take course content and build a tutorial flow that would manage a training session, text, video, slideshows, with questions, pop quizzes and reinforcing exams, exercises, with evaluation of results, etc. It should also be able to evaluate quiz questions based on student distribution of wrong responses, etc. to help refine material. Warren Vail -----Original Message----- From: Bill Fitzgerald [mailto:bill@funnymonkey.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:35 AM To: support@drupal.org Subject: Re: [support] Class modules Hello, Warren, Some notes inline below: Warren Vail wrote:

Good sources, I have the book, found it lacking but didn't give any thought to why.

There are definitely things not to like -- in particular, I cringe at the sections on file/media handling, which has changed entirely since the book was written. I also cringe at the section on the text editors, as the WYSIWYG API is now a better choice if one must actually use a text editor. The CCK, Views, and OG sections, however, have all aged pretty well.

Closer look at this indicates a difference between what I am looking for and Mr. Fitzgerald's

Ach! Please, call me Bill.

focus. The book seems to focus on supplementing the classroom process, instead of trying to find an alternative to that process.

The beauty of Drupal is that it can be used to do both. In writing the book, I used the language of the classroom to describe the site build, as the vocabulary of the classroom will be more familiar to educators. However, the core building blocks discussed in the book (CCK, Views, OG) will work just as well in a more traditional classroom setting as in a learning environment with no hierarchy at all -- or, in any social context whether it's education-related or not. Although the book is geared toward education, the concepts apply equally well across the board. My personal preference is for a system of learning that is student/process driven, but that's a different conversation.

As a software developer, I have been part of, and victim of, a global effort to imbed knowledge in software to make it unnecessary to keep lots of developers on staff, allowing for offshore (cheaper) talent to supplant what I do.

My limited vision of what I needed would allow someone to create courses to teach the special knowledge of the courses author, then, the teaching would continue without the teacher's active participation.

Use OG. Override the presentation of group content via the theming layer. Depending on your specific needs, this could get you all of the way there. If not, it will highlight where you need custom code/additional modules.

Much of what I know about Drupal development was learned this way, from books just like Mr. Fitzgerald's, perhaps not as well done as formal teaching, but not as costly as formal classrooms.

This raises the question, will educators become the next victims of globalization?

No. People might try, and there will be lots of people attempting to sell us on a "more efficient educational system" but they should be rejected as the snake oil salesmen that they are. Learning takes time; reflection takes time; understanding takes time. Time can't be outsourced. Cheers, Bill

Warren Vail

-----Original Message----- From: Tony Zielinski [mailto:tony@webavant.com] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:45 PM To: support@drupal.org Subject: Re: [support] Class modules

Bill Fitzgerald wrote a 400 page book about using Drupal for education actually http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-for-education-and-e-learning/book . You should read back through the posts on the Drupal in Education group at http://groups.drupal.org/drupal-education .

-- Bill Fitzgerald http://funnymonkey.com FunnyMonkey -- Click. Connect. Learn. ph. 503 897 7160 -- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]

Quoting Warren Vail <warren@vailtech.net>:

Good sources, I have the book, found it lacking but didn't give any thought to why. Closer look at this indicates a difference between what I am looking for and Mr. Fitzgerald's focus. The book seems to focus on supplementing the classroom process, instead of trying to find an alternative to that process.

Glad to hear you've find some information even if that information doesn't give you exactly what you want.

As a software developer, I have been part of, and victim of, a global effort to imbed knowledge in software to make it unnecessary to keep lots of developers on staff, allowing for offshore (cheaper) talent to supplant what I do.

Welcome to the one world view of economic life. In that one world we will eventually all be equal so that a matching of technical talent hours to business economic dollars match. Currently, the company I work for sees a 1:8 ratio in onshore (USA is onshore) to offshore value. They do not stop to see the lost value in less competency of yet to be tried employees.

My limited vision of what I needed would allow someone to create courses to teach the special knowledge of the courses author, then, the teaching would continue without the teacher's active participation. Much of what I know about Drupal development was learned this way, from books just like Mr. Fitzgerald's, perhaps not as well done as formal teaching, but not as costly as formal classrooms.

I understood your vision from the above comments.

This raises the question, will educators become the next victims of globalization?

Haven't they already? My wife as an educator must accept students who have no idea of what she is saying in plain English because they do not know the English language. There are classes set for these students to help them learn English but those are not the main classroom experience for these students. Then these students go to the playground, find others of their culture and talk their native language with each other. Often it is found that they are making slanderous remarks but if no one in command can understand it how can the establish control? I suppose we have shown our USA bigotry in our comments but I understand you clearly. Let me apologize in advance if anyone is offended. -- Earnie -- http://r-feed.com/ -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://www.4offer.biz/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/

True 'dat. I am not in the business of redistributing software, so GPL essentially means the same thing to me. You are right though, there's a big difference. On Jun 15, 2009, at 8:07 PM, Larry Garfield wrote:

Who said anything about the public domain? Drupal is not in the public domain nor are any of its modules. They are under the GNU General Public License, version 2-and-later. Period.

On Monday 15 June 2009 9:48:04 pm Warren Vail wrote:

...

Guess I am curious how something in the public domain could be legally removed from the public domain? I would think that would be in conflict with the terms of the open source license.

Warren Vail Vail Systems Technology warren@vailtech.net (510) 444-5380

-----Original Message----- From: Earnie Boyd [mailto:earnie@users.sourceforge.net] Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:36 PM To: support@drupal.org Subject: Re: [support] Class modules

Quoting Warren Vail <warren@vailtech.net>:

...

Class Class Assignment Class Journal Class Note Class Portfolio Class Syllabus

The code for these modules has been removed from CVS years ago. They are not maintained here. That doesn't mean they are not maintained elsewhere.

-- Larry Garfield larry@garfieldtech.com -- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]