[consulting] Drupal Certification and Requirements

paola.dimaio at gmail.com paola.dimaio at gmail.com
Fri Dec 21 13:04:46 UTC 2007

Hi Ashraf

I think there is agreeement that 'cetrificates' can be a  huge waste
of time and money
but when well designed, they actually can save a lot of time and money

I think what we are proposing here is an alternative model

and anyway, we all have different requirements
I am primarily a lecturer and researcher, and every other week I get
involved with a project
that requires a website for which I do not have time to do fundraising
so I end up paying out of my personal budgets

I do not have the focus to 'nurture a drupal organisation' -
my good drupal friends are always willing to give me a hand for free,
but I must work withing
clear requirements and tight budgets for many of my projects, and
cannot live on 'asking people favours' forever

this means, that my requirements, which is different from yours, need
to be on the table too
If someone can be helpd by some form of cert, then why should others
prevent that?



On Dec 21, 2007 7:56 PM, Ashraf Amayreh <mistknight at gmail.com> wrote:
> Certificates are plain waste of time and effort. Especially with things like
> the test king that make idiots top scorers, it simply is a waste of time.
> Worse yet is certificates which are expensive enough to prevent some people
> from getting. To top all that, they simply concentrate on memory rather than
> problem solving skills which is what really distinguishes a good developer
> from a book worm. I've been a developer and in two years took on the
> position of technology expert, I developed in VB, .NET, JAVA and PHP, I
> don't much care what language I program in. Problem solving skills are
> language neutral.
>  If I look for a beginner then what I interview is simply a charismatic
> personality and I try to gouge the effort they put to learn, how they would
> approach a problem. I could ask about code they attempted to tinker with.
> Usually assets are the type who have played with a couple of projects or
> ideas at one time or another. If I look for an expert I simply look at his
> achievements as well as his personality.
>  In the end the ultimate decision is not a risk-free endeavor. But I agree
> with Victor, a company has to be prepared to truly nurture people rather
> than draining them and expecting perfection and leaving no margins for an
> error or a delay here or there. When I want someone who I would consider an
> asset, I would not care in the least what languages he worked with, it
> usually takes so little time for an exceptional developer to get acquainted
> with new technology if given a book or a kick start. In case of drupal
> expertise, just look for someone with contributions such as modules or
> patches to modules or core. It's that simple.
> On Dec 21, 2007 2:31 PM, Liam McDermott < liam at intermedia-online.com> wrote:
> >
> > Victor Kane wrote:
> > > All posts here are well meaning... but there are a few premises which in
> > > my opinion are faulty and bear deeper examination.
> > Very interesting reply. I have to say though, it doesn't really seem to
> > have much to do with what everyone else was talking about. :)
> >
> >
> > > Drupal's intelligence as being practically a virtual machine while
> > > remaining procedural, its clean super modular approach, etc., is a
> > > result of what already works: the bazaar: we must avoid the temptation
> > > of the cathedral.
> > Absolutely and good point. I think that's why most people in this thread
> > were saying we don't need certification. Personally I just treated as an
> > interesting brain teaser, just trying to think of a certification method
> > that would work.
> >
> >
> > > The corporate world has been with Drupal for quite some time now, and is
> > > enjoying it as it is.
> > I don't know, my wife works at a well known tech university and they're
> > standardising on Sharepoint. In fact Sharepoint is gaining a scary
> > amount of traction. There's always room for improvement, particularly in
> > ways that will increase the credibility of Drupal in the world of the
> PHBs.
> >
> >
> > > So I would submit for consideration the counterpart: the instability of
> > > many corporations and NGO's lead to excessive demands, the need for
> > > everything to be ready "yesterday", the need to extract a pound of flesh
> > > from the hirelings. More than certification, we need a bloody union.
> > Hmmm, not sure about this. Employment law is good enough in most
> > countries is good enough to negate the need for unions, depends where
> > you are I suppose. Perhaps a co-op would be a better idea?
> >
> > > More than certification we need a bloody union!!!
> > Isn't this a false dichotomy? Couldn't we have both: the community could
> > organise the certification. To continue the Bazaar approach: the exams
> > could consist of work that contributes to the community.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Liam McDermott.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > consulting at drupal.org
> > http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/consulting
> >
> --
> Ashraf Amayreh
> http://blogs.aamayreh.org
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Paola Di Maio
School of IT

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