[consulting] Closing down the consulting mailing list?

Tue Aug 24 16:44:42 UTC 2010

Andrew,

I'm not sure why anyone would think this was a list for Drupal Hobbiests.
It's called a list for "Drupal consultants" which means people whose job it
is to offer Drupal consulting services.  Now I would define that very
broadly.  You may just take a side job here and there -- or even help
nonprofits as a volunteer.  You may work with Drupal in any capacity, such
as a programmer,  designer,  project manager, webshop owner, or salesperson
-- and still be a Drupal consultant.  But at a minimum, on a list for Drupal
consultants I would think you should be a Drupal consultant.

If you get paid occasionally for Drupal work then it seems to me you qualify
as a consultant.

As for whether or not your b type consultants would be put off my off-topic
conversations I think that has more to do with the person than what they
do.  I work full time with Drupal and am not bothered by off-topic
conversations.  I think it's interesting to hear my colleagues perspectives
and arguments about the evils of capitalism bring back fond memories of my
college days.

I think the obvious answer here is there are a lot of people on this list
who enjoy it.  The ones who don't should start another list or DGP group
that better meets their needs.  (Though I still think an active moderator
who establishes some ground rules would be a good idea)

And I'm still waiting for an answer on who controls this list and makes
decisions about closing it down.  Anyone?

Sam

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Andrew R. Kelly <arkelly at cognisync.com>wrote:

> It dawned on me that this conflict of what is appropriate might be based on
> two different member profiles – Drupal hobbiests vs Drupal professionals.
>
>
>
> (a)    Drupal Hobbiest:  I’m doing Drupal stuff as a hobby.  I might get
> paid occasionally but its gravy, I have another profession that feeds my
> family.
>
>
>
> (b)    Drupal Professional:  I have built my professional life around
> selling services based on Drupal.  Without Drupal, I can’t pay my bills.
>
>
>
> There are also other flavors of people like those seeking Drupal talent,
> customers, etc but I’m making an assumption that most of this list
> membership is either (a) or (b).
>
>
>
> Most of the disdain for off-topic threads appears to come from (b).  I and
> my team fall into this category.
>
>
>
> Maybe a good checkpoint is to hear from members whether or not you are (a)
> or (b).  That might help in deciding what is appropriate dialog.  If the
> majority is (a) then the rest of us should just put up with random
> conversations (but the list name is a misnomer).  If the majority is (b)
> then list activity really should mirror an office environment, a conference
> BOF session, etc., with most conversation on point and an occasional
> off-topic thread, as you would in a typical professional setting.  In this
> case you could view us as co-workers in a virtual, organically grown
> organization, all working on our own projects (which I think is a very cool
> concept).
>
>
>
> So I’ll throw this out and see if it flies:  are you (a) a Drupal hobbiest
> or (b) a Drupal professional?
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> *From:* consulting-bounces at drupal.org [mailto:
> consulting-bounces at drupal.org] *On Behalf Of *Don
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:48 AM
>
> *To:* consulting at drupal.org
> *Subject:* Re: [consulting] Closing down the consulting mailing list?
>
>
>
> I know that programmers tend to be control freaks, but this whole "do what
> I say or we'll close the list" seems way over board. Some of you are letting
> occasional topics that for some obsessive compulsive reason you can't ignore
> and just delete ruin a list that works just fine. If I leave the list, it
> will be from the temper tantrums, not the so called off-topic conversations.
>
>
> -Don-
>
> On 8/24/2010 12:45 AM, Adam Mordecai wrote:
>
> There's some internal debate about how we are going to be reforming the
> list, however, I think there is a general consensus that this is a
> completely appropriate venue to find consultants to work on your project.
> Thanks for your patience while we work out the internal debate issues and
> welcome to the list. :) Feel free to use it to find people to work with.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> -A
>
> On Aug 23, 2010, at 10:40 PM, Teresa K Pudi wrote:
>
>
>
> I joined this group recently because I was under the impression that I will
> be connected to skilled consultants.
>
>
>
> After several Drupal projects with lots of hard work to select the skills
> desired this group seemed very atractive to me.
>
>
>
> I was hoping to be able to reach out to this group for help on a project i
> am currently working on: a website redesign.
>
>
>
> We are in the process of defining requirements and will be looking for
> developer(s) soon.
>
>
>
> Is this the wrong group for me?  Is there another group U should be
> joining?
>
>
>
> Please, advise...
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Aug 23, 2010, at 8:26 PM, Therese Kells <therese.kells at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I joined this group several years ago. I used to be an employment recruiter
> back when companies still needed people like me. At the time, I wrote to the
> group and asked if it was OK to look for Drupal Consultants to support a
> project my current contract needed help on. (bty I was an inside recruiter
> working under contract to a start up.) No one, responded! So I sent out an
> email to the group, presenting what I was given by my client. I received 3
> responses and put them all in touch with the hiring manager who could speak
> intelligently to the project. (speaking intelligently to the project was a
> plus. I know that is not always the case.) The manager was blown away. He
> had never gotten such highly qualified folks so quickly. The project
> unfortunately changed and was postponed. Such is the nature of start ups.
> Why wouldn't you want someone like me to post project requests to this
> group? It worked and everyone won. Sure the project changed but I guarantee
> those consultants are still in this guys Rolodex. What harm?
>
> OK, so why am I still here? I'm self employed. You folks actually talk
> intelligently to the ins and outs of being self employed. It's hard work and
> it's lonely. It still beats the hell out of wage slavery. I hardly ever
> write to you but I read what you have to say and gain from the stuff that is
> pertinent to my situation. I have great deal of gratitude to you for your
> tips and insights.
>
> Would you really kick me out because I'm not a Drupal consultant?
>
> Thanks,
> Therese
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Sam Cohen <sam at samcohen.com> wrote:
>
> Serious question here:  Who is it that would make a decision such as
> closing down this list?  Is this one person's decision?  A committee?  How
> would it be decided, etc?
>
> I just posted on DGO a suggestion to elect a moderator.  Let's let anyone
> who would like to see the list go on and want to moderate it post what they
> think the guidelines should be.  Then everyone can vote for a moderator.
> Seems that would be a way to make this list serve the needs of its members
> in a fair way.
>
> Sam
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Greg Knaddison <
> Greg at growingventuresolutions.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Michael Shmilov <yamdesigns at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I think this list is very important but lately to much off-topics.
> > and obviously we can't expect someone to moderate/filter the topics.
> >
> > How about making this list to an rss feed? I find it very useful and we
> can
> > easily browse it.
>
> There are multiple rss feeds for every group on groups.drupal.org.
>
> If we moved the conversation there, you could use those.
>
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> --
> Greg Knaddison | 720-310-5623 | http://growingventuresolutions.com
>
> Mastering Drupal | http://www.masteringdrupal.com
>
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>
>
> Adam Mordecai
>
> Partner - Advomatic, LLC
>
> Drupal Development, Managed Hosting & Maintenance
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