[development] Install profiles tutorial for Drupal 4.7, Friday 8AM PST

Kieran Lal kieran at civicspacelabs.org
Fri Jun 9 21:35:37 UTC 2006

On Jun 9, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Bèr Kessels wrote:

> Op vrijdag 9 juni 2006 08:25, schreef Dries Buytaert:
>> Thanks CivicSpace Labs. :)
>> There is also an installer patch in the patch queue.  (I don't have
>> the URL handy as I'm no the train.  Sorry.)  We need people to
>> carefully review and refine that patch.  This is an important part of
>> the next Drupal release, and it is our task to get it into Drupal
>> core.  CivicSpace Labs did their part; it up to _all_ _of_ _us_ now
>> to get it into core ...
> I know I am not going to make myself popular. I know my proposal  
> makes very
> little chance, bu trying anyway:
>   Lets leave installers and profiles OUT of core for at least  
> another release.
> Why:
>   In contribs they can settle out. Become nice. Grow onto people.

CivicSpace, has had an installer for 18 months.  It's been downloaded  
over 20, 000 times in the first few months of the year alone.  It  
supports advanced configuration of over 30 contributed modules and  
even wraps 2 full other open source projects PHPList and CiviCRM.    
It handles multi-database installs and multi-site configuration.  We  
have also debugged it live in dozens and dozens of different  hosting  
environments and even video taped people installing it just to make  
sure it was as usable as possible.

>   In contribs they can conpete. I still think that there are other  
> ways that
> make just as well a candidate for core. My own sympal scripts are  
> just one of
> the possibilities. we are now getting apt-get alike module  
> installers in.
> Fixtures are still in the make.

So you think the path to usability is through command line scripts?  
Have you ever actually watched someone who has never seen a command  
line in their life try to use the command line?  I have, as part of  
the user research for this installer.  I watched a sixteen year girl  
who was just learning how to use a computer install CivicSpace.  Why?  
This installer is intended to make it possible so that even the least  
technically savvy people who would like a website have a chance to  
create and use a website.  In this case,  so they can write music  
lyrics and develop the skills to give themselves a better life.  

Send me a video of someone using the command line for the first time  
that you have watched. Then we can discuss how command line scripts  
will help us win in a battle of "the easiest to use CMS" wins.  Not  
everyone will be able to afford a fully managed and hosted solution  
and they deserve a fighting chance to install Drupal.  It's free  
software, as in free to use on your own server.
> No! This is not a sneaky way to get my own installer and profile  
> stuff higher
> on the ladder.
> This is just a way to sya: lets not stare blind on one solution.

We did a code review of the Wordpress installer, the CivicSpace  
installer, the Joomla installer  before we wrote a single line of  
code for the new installer.  We did a 40 page review of the main CMS  
installer's to compare on features and ensured we were state of the  
art: http://civicspacelabs.com/files/DrupalInstallerAnalysis.pdf.   
Then we worked with an existing Drupal provisioning system,  
Hostmaster, to ensure it's compatible.

> Lets leave the communities dynamics to decide. After a half year in  
> contribs we can tell
> wich is best. We can include a MATURE system, one that has  
> withstood several
> rounds of revisions and improvements.

The installer was committed as a patch 2.5 months before 4.7 shipped  
where it's been available for public review.

> We all saw how well integrating an immature system such as forms  
> api went.
> With respect to all those behind it, Drupal was not ready for such an
> immature system. Fact is that still; some rather critical elements  
> are not
> sorted out well (files uploads required stuff).
> Views, CCK are all coming along in contribs just fine. I beleive  
> views needs
> just another few months and it might prove ready for core. It is by  
> far one
> of the most groundshaking improvements to Drupal, just not ready  
> for core. If
> ever.

We re-wrote again from scratch after 18 months of live user testing.

> Why stare blind on one install system that is not tested, not  
> mature and has
> not proved to be the Right Solution? Why depend only on those that  
> can review
> patches, when we have a huge reviewing organism called "contribs"?  
> Only
> because the Mob demands install systems? If they do so, lets give  
> it, in
> contribs. And let that Mob sort out what the best stuff is, what  
> needs fixed
> and what should be changed.

Did you see how it has modified the Drupal bootstrap?  Contributed  
modules are contributed, which means they rely on Drupal.

The install profile system is one of the key features for the next  
release of Drupal.   This has been stated publicly for months.  Dries  
said it was the number one thing he wanted added to Drupal in the  
state of Drupal talk in Vancouver.


> Bèr
> -- 
>  [ Bèr Kessels | Drupal services www.webschuur.com ]
> Drupal upgrade repareert kritiek beveiligingslek:
>  http://help.sympal.nl/ 
> drupal_upgrade_repareert_kritiek_beveiligingslek

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