[development] #drupal / #drupal-dev split considered harmful

Ashraf Amayreh mistknight at gmail.com
Wed Aug 1 00:41:23 UTC 2007

Why not focus on improving rather than bickering? With what's been said, and
if there's no chance of starvation since #drupal-support does actually have
a good number of friendly drupal support people, changing #drupal-support to
#drupal is the way to go.

+ves :
1. the devs who are bothered by newb's could lurk in -dev without getting
bothered, too often, that is ;)
2. support seeking people will happen to fall in drupal heaven when they
guess #drupal's the place to go for support, good first impression
3. this will be confirming to channel standards.

-ves :
Are there any?

On 8/1/07, Angela Byron <drupal-devel at webchick.net> wrote:
> On 31-Jul-07, at 8:19 PM, Derek Wright wrote:
> >
> > On Jul 31, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Angela Byron wrote:
> >
> >> Since the people who founded #drupal-dev are the ones who rocked
> >> the boat, I believe it is their responsibility to steer us to our
> >> final destination. So what's it going to be? Are you guys going to
> >> hang out in #drupal and answer support questions all day? Or are
> >> you going to come back to the fold?
> >
> > Oh come on.  You've seen the replies we just got when we tried to
> > be logical and reasonable about it.  I thought I did a good job of
> > providing evidence for my position.  I'm not interested in trying
> > to have a debate in this climate, where the only replies in favor
> > of the old status quo are either:
> >
> > "I won't give up the channel to people too stupid to use IRC"
> >
> > or
> >
> > "Since you rocked the boat, it's now your responsibility to either
> > provide free support all day or admit you were wrong for wanting to
> > change anything".
> >
> >
> > And, frankly, how dare you accuse Earl and myself (for example) for
> > not providing enough support?  Like we haven't done our share to
> > help the Drupal project, writing docs, answering questions (in and
> > out of IRC), improving the support tools on d.o, training the next
> > layer of developers and contributors, etc, etc.  I'm not even
> > talking about the code we write.  Please.
> Yes, that was very poorly worded, and you have my full apologies. It
> was never my intention to disparage the efforts that people like you
> and Earl are putting into the Drupal community. It also was not my
> intention to start a fight or an argument -- I'm just very concerned
> with the impact this is having / will have on the community as a whole.
> My intention, rather, was to drive home the fact that when smart,
> awesome people leave #drupal, it hurts the project as a whole,
> because #drupal is where the vast majority of users are going to go.
> Most users don't consider themselves "developer" material, and will
> never catch all of the great discussions going on in the #drupal-dev
> channel because they'll assume themselves too stupid to fit in. And
> as a result, Drupal misses out on new contributors who might be
> passively idling in #drupal, see people talking about some issue or
> another, and get sucked in. Couple this with a complete lack of
> people handling the 'support?' questions, and IMO the project as a
> whole is worse off.
> But yes, I do believe that there is more to creating change than
> simply starting a new channel and going elsewhere. The only way
> #drupal will become a useful place for new users is if people start
> hanging out there and making it so. Abandoning it, as many have done,
> has only made things remarkably worse.
> -Angie
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