[development] #drupal / #drupal-dev split considered harmful

[Ashraf Amayreh]

By the way, I don't see a merging of the channels back into #drupal as the
way to go.

I would say that when developers get hardened enough they will seek the
#-dev channel just to see what's cooking in the high altitude drupal
atmosphere. So they'll go there looking for that, rather than throwing
people who can't tell a node from a block in the midst of the formAPI
anarchy :P

AA

On 8/1/07, Ashraf Amayreh <mistknight at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why not focus on improving rather than bickering? With what's been said,
> and if there's no chance of starvation since #drupal-support does actually
> have a good number of friendly drupal support people, changing
> #drupal-support to #drupal is the way to go.
>
> +ves :
> 1. the devs who are bothered by newb's could lurk in -dev without getting
> bothered, too often, that is ;)
> 2. support seeking people will happen to fall in drupal heaven when they
> guess #drupal's the place to go for support, good first impression
> 3. this will be confirming to channel standards.
>
> -ves :
> Are there any?
>
>
> On 8/1/07, Angela Byron <drupal-devel at webchick.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 31-Jul-07, at 8:19 PM, Derek Wright wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Jul 31, 2007, at 4:54 PM, Angela Byron wrote:
> > >
> > >> Since the people who founded #drupal-dev are the ones who rocked
> > >> the boat, I believe it is their responsibility to steer us to our
> > >> final destination. So what's it going to be? Are you guys going to
> > >> hang out in #drupal and answer support questions all day? Or are
> > >> you going to come back to the fold?
> > >
> > > Oh come on.  You've seen the replies we just got when we tried to
> > > be logical and reasonable about it.  I thought I did a good job of
> > > providing evidence for my position.  I'm not interested in trying
> > > to have a debate in this climate, where the only replies in favor
> > > of the old status quo are either:
> > >
> > > "I won't give up the channel to people too stupid to use IRC"
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > "Since you rocked the boat, it's now your responsibility to either
> > > provide free support all day or admit you were wrong for wanting to
> > > change anything".
> > >
> > >
> > > And, frankly, how dare you accuse Earl and myself (for example) for
> > > not providing enough support?  Like we haven't done our share to
> > > help the Drupal project, writing docs, answering questions (in and
> > > out of IRC), improving the support tools on d.o, training the next
> > > layer of developers and contributors, etc, etc.  I'm not even
> > > talking about the code we write.  Please.
> >
> > Yes, that was very poorly worded, and you have my full apologies. It
> > was never my intention to disparage the efforts that people like you
> > and Earl are putting into the Drupal community. It also was not my
> > intention to start a fight or an argument -- I'm just very concerned
> > with the impact this is having / will have on the community as a whole.
> >
> > My intention, rather, was to drive home the fact that when smart,
> > awesome people leave #drupal, it hurts the project as a whole,
> > because #drupal is where the vast majority of users are going to go.
> > Most users don't consider themselves "developer" material, and will
> > never catch all of the great discussions going on in the #drupal-dev
> > channel because they'll assume themselves too stupid to fit in. And
> > as a result, Drupal misses out on new contributors who might be
> > passively idling in #drupal, see people talking about some issue or
> > another, and get sucked in. Couple this with a complete lack of
> > people handling the 'support?' questions, and IMO the project as a
> > whole is worse off.
> >
> > But yes, I do believe that there is more to creating change than
> > simply starting a new channel and going elsewhere. The only way
> > #drupal will become a useful place for new users is if people start
> > hanging out there and making it so. Abandoning it, as many have done,
> > has only made things remarkably worse.
> >
> > -Angie
> >
> >
>
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