[development] Drupal Answers: A Stackoverflow/StackExchange site proposal

Victor Kane victorkane at gmail.com
Tue Feb 1 17:07:20 UTC 2011


On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:38 PM, larry at garfieldtech.com <
larry at garfieldtech.com> wrote:

> Uh, Victor, you are aware that Wikipedia has a "team" of editors who
> correct, prune, and curate content far more actively than anyone on
> Drupal.org, right?
>
>
Well, that is a relatively recent development, isn't it? Their initial
success at least was due to crowdsourcing, wasn't it? Can you prove they are
doing better as a result?

Victor


> And you are also aware that Drupal core has appointed "leads" who are
> extremely picky about what they allow in?
>
> And that PHP itself has about 1000 committers who don't have to talk to
> each other before committing, and the result is an utter trainwreck of
> inconsistency and people committing things in the middle of the night just
> to avoid the fact that everyone else already said no to an idea? (True
> story.)
>
> Just making sure about that...
>
> --Larry Garfield
>
>
> On 2/1/11 6:37 AM, Victor Kane wrote:
>
>> I won't be able to go to DrupalCon this year, so I'll give my feedback
>> here.
>>
>> One thing that's clear from the success of many open documentation sites
>> (wikipedia, stack overflow) is that they avoid top down governance, they
>> let the meritocracy form on the basis of what actually happens.
>>
>> I firmly believe that the existence of "document leads" and other forms
>> of control have done more harm than good, despite heroic efforts from
>> these individuals, since all that has happened over the last few years
>> is a constant moving around of a hierarchical structure.
>>
>> Why wouldn't a freer, wiki like approach work?
>>
>> Victor Kane
>> http://awebfactory.com.ar
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Randy Fay <randy at randyfay.com
>> <mailto:randy at randyfay.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    I don't think we can delegate any part of Drupal to something we
>>    don't control; I think that's just a non-starter.
>>
>>    So for me, the issue is what we can learn from StackOverflow and
>>    friends - they do great stuff and end up with great content. And
>>    yes, I think we should build something on that.
>>
>>    Who is signing up to build it? I think it's an easy sell.
>>
>>    -Randy
>>
>>
>>    On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Dan Horning
>>    <dan.horning at planetnoc.com <mailto:dan.horning at planetnoc.com>> wrote:
>>
>>        i have to ask ... what would we actually gain by doing this -
>>        cleanup the various methods for finding info about a given
>>        module or theme or bug a little and we far surpass this
>>        suggested tool
>>
>>        it seems that stackoverflow is driven very highly on userpoints
>>        to control access - which while a good thing - doesn't really
>>        fit the development model we have here. there are existing
>>        processes that would have to change to fit the suggested model.
>>        I for one am more for peer reviews and leadership staff
>>        assigning access than a points system that someone could rack up
>>        points and just get access ... what's that really do for the
>>        community - seems that would be great if we were just a tech
>>        help forum - awarding points for the users that help and giving
>>        them more access - but what's that do for drupal and it's
>>        community? (i know there is a potential for this to help ...)
>>
>>        another area of issue to me is - another login ? or would it use
>>        SSO?
>>        do the drupal leadership users and dries have admin level
>>        control...?
>>
>>        mostly here i just don't get what adding yet another resource
>>        (like has been said before) would do to help the lead devs,
>>        module + theme devs and just supporting drupal. if i had say -=-
>>        i'd vote against this idea
>>
>>        --
>>        Dan Horning
>>
>>        ----- Original Message -----
>>         > From: "Victor Kane" <victorkane at gmail.com
>>        <mailto:victorkane at gmail.com>>
>>         > To: development at drupal.org <mailto:development at drupal.org>
>>         > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:01:55 PM
>>         > Subject: Re: [development] Drupal Answers: A
>>        Stackoverflow/StackExchange site proposal
>>         > I guess this is a good place to start:
>>         > http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:00 PM, Victor Kane <
>>        victorkane at gmail.com <mailto:victorkane at gmail.com> >
>>
>>         > wrote:
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Josh Koenig <
>>        josh at getpantheon.com <mailto:josh at getpantheon.com> >
>>
>>         > wrote:
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Stew,
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Thanks for starting this thread. This is important stuff:
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/2978/drupal-answers
>>         >
>>         > I want to put my support behind this proposal and explain my
>>        thinking
>>         > in doing so.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > The Drupal community is already growing faster than Drupal's
>>         > infrastructure can easily support. With the release of D7 and
>>        all the
>>         > other associated projects getting off the ground, drupal.org
>>        <http://drupal.org> is
>>
>>         > increasingly often a bottleneck or blocker. We have wonderful
>>        hosts
>>         > from OSUOSL, but the human resources needed to develop,
>>        maintain and
>>         > manage our own infrastructure (which is a 24x7x365 job) are
>>        limited.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > We have to pick our battles. I much would rather see energy,
>>        effort,
>>         > attention and money poured into continuing to improve our git
>> and
>>         > module infrastructure — which is much more deeply intrinsic
>>        to the
>>         > health and future of the project — and accept that even though
>> we
>>         > *can* build our own StackOverflow (@eaton proved this
>>        already) that
>>         > doesn't necessarily mean it's the best use of limited
>>        resources, or
>>         > the best thing for the project.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Drupal can theoretically/technically solve a lot of its own
>>        problems,
>>         > but I think we often suffer from a "not built here" prejudice
>>        as a
>>         > result. In the realm of getting good quality answers to Drupal
>>         > questions out to the most people possible, I can't see how a
>>         > StackExchange site would do anything but help. I would love
>>        to see the
>>         > community embrace something really cool and useful from the
>> wider
>>         > Internet as a way to promote the project.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > You make a convincing argument Josh; my own gut feeling has
>> been,
>>         > reading this thread, "how can we delegate something so
>>        important to
>>         > the Drupal Community as its own documentation to another
>>        party who may
>>         > or may not exist in the near/medium/long term".
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Can someone inform somewhat on who these guys are? And why
>>        there and
>>         > not someplace else?
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Victor
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Finally, I should say that I *do not* think a StackExchange
>>        answers
>>         > site replaces anything. It's not an issue queue, and it's not a
>>         > replacement for the dialogue that exist in the forums. I
>>        would say
>>         > it's a new resource, something that can help the 10s of 1000s of
>>         > people who will be trying to wrap their mind around Drupal in
>> the
>>         > coming year.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Cheers
>>         > -josh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    --
>>    Randy Fay
>>    Drupal Module and Site Development
>>    randy at randyfay.com <mailto:randy at randyfay.com>
>>    +1  970.462.7450
>>
>>
>>
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