[development] Drupal Answers: A Stackoverflow/StackExchange site proposal
Randy Fay
randy at randyfay.com
Tue Feb 1 18:16:05 UTC 2011
One key thing that I'm hearing in this discussion is that a support team
needs to spin off from the traditional "docs" team. Support really is a
different thing, and it should be handled with a more deliberate
organizational approach than we've taken before.
I like your idea, Shai, although it seems hard to keep running. But I like
it.
-Randy
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Shai Gluskin <shai at content2zero.com> wrote:
> What I would like to see a support team do is organize people to sign-up
> for specific hours to "staff" the support channels, all of them (d.o.
> support at drupal.org, g.d.o, maybe even stack overflow), answering people's
> questions wherever they show up.
>
> People would volunteer to sign up for two-hour shifts. That's only 84
> shifts a week to cover 24/7. I'm sure during busy hours we could get
> multiple people to sign up for shifts.
>
> What is so critical in support is the timelines of the response. And
> because the shifts are time-bound, I'll bet we could recruit a lot of people
> to sign-up who don't ever visit the forums at d.o.
>
> I believe this kind of effort would make Drupal seem much more welcoming
> than it is currently perceived by people just starting Drupal.
>
> Shai
>
> maybe even stack overflow as well)
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Victor Kane <victorkane at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:38 PM, larry at garfieldtech.com <
>> larry at garfieldtech.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Uh, Victor, you are aware that Wikipedia has a "team" of editors who
>>> correct, prune, and curate content far more actively than anyone on
>>> Drupal.org, right?
>>>
>>>
>> Well, that is a relatively recent development, isn't it? Their initial
>> success at least was due to crowdsourcing, wasn't it? Can you prove they are
>> doing better as a result?
>>
>> Victor
>>
>>
>>> And you are also aware that Drupal core has appointed "leads" who are
>>> extremely picky about what they allow in?
>>>
>>> And that PHP itself has about 1000 committers who don't have to talk to
>>> each other before committing, and the result is an utter trainwreck of
>>> inconsistency and people committing things in the middle of the night just
>>> to avoid the fact that everyone else already said no to an idea? (True
>>> story.)
>>>
>>> Just making sure about that...
>>>
>>> --Larry Garfield
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/1/11 6:37 AM, Victor Kane wrote:
>>>
>>>> I won't be able to go to DrupalCon this year, so I'll give my feedback
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>> One thing that's clear from the success of many open documentation sites
>>>> (wikipedia, stack overflow) is that they avoid top down governance, they
>>>> let the meritocracy form on the basis of what actually happens.
>>>>
>>>> I firmly believe that the existence of "document leads" and other forms
>>>> of control have done more harm than good, despite heroic efforts from
>>>> these individuals, since all that has happened over the last few years
>>>> is a constant moving around of a hierarchical structure.
>>>>
>>>> Why wouldn't a freer, wiki like approach work?
>>>>
>>>> Victor Kane
>>>> http://awebfactory.com.ar
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Randy Fay <randy at randyfay.com
>>>> <mailto:randy at randyfay.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't think we can delegate any part of Drupal to something we
>>>> don't control; I think that's just a non-starter.
>>>>
>>>> So for me, the issue is what we can learn from StackOverflow and
>>>> friends - they do great stuff and end up with great content. And
>>>> yes, I think we should build something on that.
>>>>
>>>> Who is signing up to build it? I think it's an easy sell.
>>>>
>>>> -Randy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Dan Horning
>>>> <dan.horning at planetnoc.com <mailto:dan.horning at planetnoc.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> i have to ask ... what would we actually gain by doing this -
>>>> cleanup the various methods for finding info about a given
>>>> module or theme or bug a little and we far surpass this
>>>> suggested tool
>>>>
>>>> it seems that stackoverflow is driven very highly on userpoints
>>>> to control access - which while a good thing - doesn't really
>>>> fit the development model we have here. there are existing
>>>> processes that would have to change to fit the suggested model.
>>>> I for one am more for peer reviews and leadership staff
>>>> assigning access than a points system that someone could rack up
>>>> points and just get access ... what's that really do for the
>>>> community - seems that would be great if we were just a tech
>>>> help forum - awarding points for the users that help and giving
>>>> them more access - but what's that do for drupal and it's
>>>> community? (i know there is a potential for this to help ...)
>>>>
>>>> another area of issue to me is - another login ? or would it use
>>>> SSO?
>>>> do the drupal leadership users and dries have admin level
>>>> control...?
>>>>
>>>> mostly here i just don't get what adding yet another resource
>>>> (like has been said before) would do to help the lead devs,
>>>> module + theme devs and just supporting drupal. if i had say -=-
>>>> i'd vote against this idea
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dan Horning
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Victor Kane" <victorkane at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:victorkane at gmail.com>>
>>>> > To: development at drupal.org <mailto:development at drupal.org>
>>>> > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:01:55 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [development] Drupal Answers: A
>>>> Stackoverflow/StackExchange site proposal
>>>> > I guess this is a good place to start:
>>>> > http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:00 PM, Victor Kane <
>>>> victorkane at gmail.com <mailto:victorkane at gmail.com> >
>>>>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Josh Koenig <
>>>> josh at getpantheon.com <mailto:josh at getpantheon.com> >
>>>>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Stew,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for starting this thread. This is important stuff:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/2978/drupal-answers
>>>> >
>>>> > I want to put my support behind this proposal and explain my
>>>> thinking
>>>> > in doing so.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > The Drupal community is already growing faster than Drupal's
>>>> > infrastructure can easily support. With the release of D7 and
>>>> all the
>>>> > other associated projects getting off the ground, drupal.org
>>>> <http://drupal.org> is
>>>>
>>>> > increasingly often a bottleneck or blocker. We have wonderful
>>>> hosts
>>>> > from OSUOSL, but the human resources needed to develop,
>>>> maintain and
>>>> > manage our own infrastructure (which is a 24x7x365 job) are
>>>> limited.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > We have to pick our battles. I much would rather see energy,
>>>> effort,
>>>> > attention and money poured into continuing to improve our git
>>>> and
>>>> > module infrastructure — which is much more deeply intrinsic
>>>> to the
>>>> > health and future of the project — and accept that even though
>>>> we
>>>> > *can* build our own StackOverflow (@eaton proved this
>>>> already) that
>>>> > doesn't necessarily mean it's the best use of limited
>>>> resources, or
>>>> > the best thing for the project.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Drupal can theoretically/technically solve a lot of its own
>>>> problems,
>>>> > but I think we often suffer from a "not built here" prejudice
>>>> as a
>>>> > result. In the realm of getting good quality answers to Drupal
>>>> > questions out to the most people possible, I can't see how a
>>>> > StackExchange site would do anything but help. I would love
>>>> to see the
>>>> > community embrace something really cool and useful from the
>>>> wider
>>>> > Internet as a way to promote the project.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > You make a convincing argument Josh; my own gut feeling has
>>>> been,
>>>> > reading this thread, "how can we delegate something so
>>>> important to
>>>> > the Drupal Community as its own documentation to another
>>>> party who may
>>>> > or may not exist in the near/medium/long term".
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Can someone inform somewhat on who these guys are? And why
>>>> there and
>>>> > not someplace else?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Victor
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Finally, I should say that I *do not* think a StackExchange
>>>> answers
>>>> > site replaces anything. It's not an issue queue, and it's not
>>>> a
>>>> > replacement for the dialogue that exist in the forums. I
>>>> would say
>>>> > it's a new resource, something that can help the 10s of 1000s
>>>> of
>>>> > people who will be trying to wrap their mind around Drupal in
>>>> the
>>>> > coming year.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Cheers
>>>> > -josh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Randy Fay
>>>> Drupal Module and Site Development
>>>> randy at randyfay.com <mailto:randy at randyfay.com>
>>>> +1 970.462.7450
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
--
Randy Fay
Drupal Module and Site Development
randy at randyfay.com
+1 970.462.7450
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