[development] Drupal Answers: A Stackoverflow/StackExchange site proposal

Randy Fay randy at randyfay.com
Tue Feb 1 18:16:05 UTC 2011


One key thing that I'm hearing in this discussion is that a support team
needs to spin off from the traditional "docs" team. Support really is a
different thing, and it should be handled with a more deliberate
organizational approach than we've taken before.

I like your idea, Shai, although it seems hard to keep running. But I like
it.

-Randy

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Shai Gluskin <shai at content2zero.com> wrote:

> What I would like to see a support team do is organize people to sign-up
> for specific hours to "staff" the support channels, all of them (d.o.
> support at drupal.org, g.d.o, maybe even stack overflow), answering people's
> questions wherever they show up.
>
> People would volunteer to sign up for two-hour shifts. That's only 84
> shifts a week to cover 24/7. I'm sure during busy hours we could get
> multiple people to sign up for shifts.
>
> What is so critical in support is the timelines of the response. And
> because the shifts are time-bound, I'll bet we could recruit a lot of people
> to sign-up who don't ever visit the forums at d.o.
>
> I believe this kind of effort would make Drupal seem much more welcoming
> than it is currently perceived by people just starting Drupal.
>
> Shai
>
> maybe even stack overflow as well)
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Victor Kane <victorkane at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:38 PM, larry at garfieldtech.com <
>> larry at garfieldtech.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Uh, Victor, you are aware that Wikipedia has a "team" of editors who
>>> correct, prune, and curate content far more actively than anyone on
>>> Drupal.org, right?
>>>
>>>
>> Well, that is a relatively recent development, isn't it? Their initial
>> success at least was due to crowdsourcing, wasn't it? Can you prove they are
>> doing better as a result?
>>
>> Victor
>>
>>
>>> And you are also aware that Drupal core has appointed "leads" who are
>>> extremely picky about what they allow in?
>>>
>>> And that PHP itself has about 1000 committers who don't have to talk to
>>> each other before committing, and the result is an utter trainwreck of
>>> inconsistency and people committing things in the middle of the night just
>>> to avoid the fact that everyone else already said no to an idea? (True
>>> story.)
>>>
>>> Just making sure about that...
>>>
>>> --Larry Garfield
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/1/11 6:37 AM, Victor Kane wrote:
>>>
>>>> I won't be able to go to DrupalCon this year, so I'll give my feedback
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>> One thing that's clear from the success of many open documentation sites
>>>> (wikipedia, stack overflow) is that they avoid top down governance, they
>>>> let the meritocracy form on the basis of what actually happens.
>>>>
>>>> I firmly believe that the existence of "document leads" and other forms
>>>> of control have done more harm than good, despite heroic efforts from
>>>> these individuals, since all that has happened over the last few years
>>>> is a constant moving around of a hierarchical structure.
>>>>
>>>> Why wouldn't a freer, wiki like approach work?
>>>>
>>>> Victor Kane
>>>> http://awebfactory.com.ar
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Randy Fay <randy at randyfay.com
>>>> <mailto:randy at randyfay.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    I don't think we can delegate any part of Drupal to something we
>>>>    don't control; I think that's just a non-starter.
>>>>
>>>>    So for me, the issue is what we can learn from StackOverflow and
>>>>    friends - they do great stuff and end up with great content. And
>>>>    yes, I think we should build something on that.
>>>>
>>>>    Who is signing up to build it? I think it's an easy sell.
>>>>
>>>>    -Randy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Dan Horning
>>>>    <dan.horning at planetnoc.com <mailto:dan.horning at planetnoc.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        i have to ask ... what would we actually gain by doing this -
>>>>        cleanup the various methods for finding info about a given
>>>>        module or theme or bug a little and we far surpass this
>>>>        suggested tool
>>>>
>>>>        it seems that stackoverflow is driven very highly on userpoints
>>>>        to control access - which while a good thing - doesn't really
>>>>        fit the development model we have here. there are existing
>>>>        processes that would have to change to fit the suggested model.
>>>>        I for one am more for peer reviews and leadership staff
>>>>        assigning access than a points system that someone could rack up
>>>>        points and just get access ... what's that really do for the
>>>>        community - seems that would be great if we were just a tech
>>>>        help forum - awarding points for the users that help and giving
>>>>        them more access - but what's that do for drupal and it's
>>>>        community? (i know there is a potential for this to help ...)
>>>>
>>>>        another area of issue to me is - another login ? or would it use
>>>>        SSO?
>>>>        do the drupal leadership users and dries have admin level
>>>>        control...?
>>>>
>>>>        mostly here i just don't get what adding yet another resource
>>>>        (like has been said before) would do to help the lead devs,
>>>>        module + theme devs and just supporting drupal. if i had say -=-
>>>>        i'd vote against this idea
>>>>
>>>>        --
>>>>        Dan Horning
>>>>
>>>>        ----- Original Message -----
>>>>         > From: "Victor Kane" <victorkane at gmail.com
>>>>        <mailto:victorkane at gmail.com>>
>>>>         > To: development at drupal.org <mailto:development at drupal.org>
>>>>         > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:01:55 PM
>>>>         > Subject: Re: [development] Drupal Answers: A
>>>>        Stackoverflow/StackExchange site proposal
>>>>         > I guess this is a good place to start:
>>>>         > http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:00 PM, Victor Kane <
>>>>        victorkane at gmail.com <mailto:victorkane at gmail.com> >
>>>>
>>>>         > wrote:
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Josh Koenig <
>>>>        josh at getpantheon.com <mailto:josh at getpantheon.com> >
>>>>
>>>>         > wrote:
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > Stew,
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > Thanks for starting this thread. This is important stuff:
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/2978/drupal-answers
>>>>         >
>>>>         > I want to put my support behind this proposal and explain my
>>>>        thinking
>>>>         > in doing so.
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > The Drupal community is already growing faster than Drupal's
>>>>         > infrastructure can easily support. With the release of D7 and
>>>>        all the
>>>>         > other associated projects getting off the ground, drupal.org
>>>>        <http://drupal.org> is
>>>>
>>>>         > increasingly often a bottleneck or blocker. We have wonderful
>>>>        hosts
>>>>         > from OSUOSL, but the human resources needed to develop,
>>>>        maintain and
>>>>         > manage our own infrastructure (which is a 24x7x365 job) are
>>>>        limited.
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > We have to pick our battles. I much would rather see energy,
>>>>        effort,
>>>>         > attention and money poured into continuing to improve our git
>>>> and
>>>>         > module infrastructure — which is much more deeply intrinsic
>>>>        to the
>>>>         > health and future of the project — and accept that even though
>>>> we
>>>>         > *can* build our own StackOverflow (@eaton proved this
>>>>        already) that
>>>>         > doesn't necessarily mean it's the best use of limited
>>>>        resources, or
>>>>         > the best thing for the project.
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > Drupal can theoretically/technically solve a lot of its own
>>>>        problems,
>>>>         > but I think we often suffer from a "not built here" prejudice
>>>>        as a
>>>>         > result. In the realm of getting good quality answers to Drupal
>>>>         > questions out to the most people possible, I can't see how a
>>>>         > StackExchange site would do anything but help. I would love
>>>>        to see the
>>>>         > community embrace something really cool and useful from the
>>>> wider
>>>>         > Internet as a way to promote the project.
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > You make a convincing argument Josh; my own gut feeling has
>>>> been,
>>>>         > reading this thread, "how can we delegate something so
>>>>        important to
>>>>         > the Drupal Community as its own documentation to another
>>>>        party who may
>>>>         > or may not exist in the near/medium/long term".
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > Can someone inform somewhat on who these guys are? And why
>>>>        there and
>>>>         > not someplace else?
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > Victor
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > Finally, I should say that I *do not* think a StackExchange
>>>>        answers
>>>>         > site replaces anything. It's not an issue queue, and it's not
>>>> a
>>>>         > replacement for the dialogue that exist in the forums. I
>>>>        would say
>>>>         > it's a new resource, something that can help the 10s of 1000s
>>>> of
>>>>         > people who will be trying to wrap their mind around Drupal in
>>>> the
>>>>         > coming year.
>>>>         >
>>>>         >
>>>>         > Cheers
>>>>         > -josh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    --
>>>>    Randy Fay
>>>>    Drupal Module and Site Development
>>>>    randy at randyfay.com <mailto:randy at randyfay.com>
>>>>    +1  970.462.7450
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>


-- 
Randy Fay
Drupal Module and Site Development
randy at randyfay.com
+1  970.462.7450
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/development/attachments/20110201/8f9b3cc7/attachment-0001.html 


More information about the development mailing list