[development] Proposal: Move all dev support off this list to new StackExchange site

Ryan LeTulle bayousoft at gmail.com
Fri Mar 18 03:40:56 UTC 2011

I wish there was some way to save the mailing list format.  It is awesome
for listening in on conversations and has always been a great way of ambient
learning for me.

Ryan LeTulle*

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 10:33 PM, <jeff at ayendesigns.com> wrote:

>  Well, I was really without an opinion one way or the other until I read
> this. For my part, I have certainly asked a number of questions here,
> primarily because they are heavy lifting questions and I found most of the
> helpful souls in #drupal-support to be more of the site-building types than
> bitheads, and when I first crossed paths with this list it was apparently
> already 'polluted,' so I came away thinking this was what it was for. And
> also, I freely admit that I found a lot of pleasure in reading opinions on
> the best way to accomplish things FROM people like Angie, Earl, Randy, Dave,
> Larry and the other heavy hitters. In a world where, despite best
> intentions, the architecture is not necessarily intuitive, the handbook
> often falls short (yes, I need to help out there) and the demand on us as
> developers leaves less and less time available to spend 2-3 hours hunting
> and reading to empower 5 minutes of coding, it was one of the few places
> I've had a warm and fuzzy feeling. All of that, though, was simply my
> ignorance as to what this list is supposed to be. So, all of that said, I
> think those who established it and used it while it was still being what was
> intended ought to make the decision. I'm quite happy to seek assistance
> wherever a place exists, and, now that I know, excited to think that there
> can again be a place, here or wherever you all decide, for me to eavesdrop
> on the types of discussions that used to occur here.
>  Jeff
>  On 03/17/2011 10:58 PM, Angela Byron wrote:
> Well, that's essentially what this list has become, and why most of the
> people who used to frequent the list back in 2005-2007 no longer do.
>  It used to be that this list was for high-level strategical discussions
> around core/contrib/d.o development, active brainstorming on big problem
> solving, important announcements that affected CVS (now Git) account
> holders, and those sort of things. What we currently (badly) use "meta"
> issues and a variety of fragmented groups on g.d.o for, was what this
> development list was for at one time. Support questions were directed to the
> forums or to IRC.
>  However, over time, the volume of support requests coming into this list
> for "Is there a module that does what I want?" and "How come my code is
> broken?" have far out-stripped most of the veterans' ability to ask,
> repeatedly, for them to be taken off-list. And so most of them have by now
> vacated the premises in favour of lower-traffic IRC channels like
> #drupal-contribute or to groups.drupal.org silos. These mediums have now
> mostly taken over the core function the mailing list used to, but in an
> ad-hoc, "you only know about it if you happened to be there or if some kind
> soul wrote a summary in the issue queue about it" fashion. This "support
> creep" has been happening in lots of other places too over the past couple
> of years: #drupal, issue queues, etc. and it all only exacerbates the
> problem of the more dedicated and hard working individuals withdrawing away
> from the larger community in an attempt to maintain some sort of sanity. All
> of which is *extremely* detrimental to our community, including the people
> who need support.
>  I believe Randy's proposal is an attempt to rectify this situation, and
> get this mailing list back to its roots, by providing an alternate mechanism
> for both support and important announcements. I don't agree that shuffling
> contributors off of Drupal.org is the answer (I have a long-winded, ranty
> blog post about this I need to write up sometime...), but I also frankly
> don't believe that this list will ever overcome the stigma/reputation that's
> grown up around it among the core group of contributors, even if we were all
> to do a concerted effort to get the content back under quality control. It's
> easier to just give up and call a spade a spade (or, in this case, a
> development support list a development support list). :(
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