[development] #drupal and #drupal-contribute split (Was: Re: Proposal: Move all dev support off this list to new StackExchange site)

Angela Byron drupal-devel at webchick.net
Fri Mar 18 19:49:25 UTC 2011

On 2011-03-18, at 8:53 AM, Daniel F. Kudwien wrote:

> I agree with Angie, Cameron, and Karen.  Just like we have
> #drupal-contribute, we could also need a clearly separated mailing list for
> all topics focusing on Drupal contributions.  That is, regardless of whether
> core or contrib, or code or usability.
> The separation in IRC has proven to be a good idea, as far as I can tell.

Warning: This is an off-topic rant.

No. This is actually one of the most damaging things we have *ever* done to our community's health, both in the short term, but especially in the long term.

The moment that Drupal 7 came out, this is what was happening in #drupal-contribute, faster than the speed of light:

10:20:17 PM dmitrig01: dries++
10:20:17 PM davereid: drupal7++
10:20:17 PM bellHead: beejeebus: Sure - that's the goal. LOC is a far easier metric.
10:20:17 PM ksenzee: liammcdermott: lol
10:20:17 PM Crell: everyone++
10:20:19 PM Crell: everyone++
10:20:20 PM dmitrig01: dries++
10:20:21 PM Crell: everyone++
10:20:21 PM carlos8f: http://drupalcode.org/viewvc/drupal/drupal/?pathrev=DRUPAL-7-0 http://drupalcode.org/viewvc/drupal/drupal/?pathrev=DRUPAL-7-0 http://drupalcode.org/viewvc/drupal/drupal/?pathrev=DRUPAL-7-0
10:20:21 PM liammcdermott: webchick++
10:20:22 PM Crell: everyone++
10:20:22 PM liammcdermott: webchick++
10:20:23 PM arianek: goodness you crazies
10:20:23 PM jacine: *hugs #drupal-contribute*
10:20:23 PM Crell: everyone++
10:20:25 PM Crell: everyone++
10:20:26 PM hejrocker: webchick++
10:20:26 PM Crell: everyone++

Conversely, here's what was going on in #drupal:

robbiethegeek [~robbiethe at] entered the room. (10:34:24 AM)
awjr [~arthur at rthrrchrds.com] entered the room. (10:34:30 AM)
V1ntage [~chatzilla at 133.30-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] entered the room. (10:34:48 AM)
Stalski [~stalski at 78-21-58-227.access.telenet.be] entered the room. (10:35:09 AM)
ryanblair [~ryanblair at] entered the room. (10:35:13 AM)
Stalski left the room. (10:35:18 AM)
amye [~amye at c-98-246-185-241.hsd1.or.comcast.net] entered the room. (10:35:19 AM)
Bes` [~Guillaume at ax313-5-78-227-128-243.fbx.proxad.net] entered the room. (10:35:20 AM)
Stalski [~stalski at 78-21-58-227.access.telenet.be] entered the room. (10:35:25 AM)
Haza`Aw is now known as Haza` (10:35:37 AM)
Irishgringo [~chatzilla at c-66-229-63-143.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] entered the room. (10:36:13 AM)
langworthy [~langworth at] entered the room. (10:36:39 AM)
10:36:40 AM awjr: if i have a module X that calls 'module_invoke_all( 'Y' )', and module X implements hook Y, will Y in module X get invoked?
gua_ould left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 276 seconds). (10:36:44 AM)
ryanblair left the room (quit: Client Quit). (10:36:56 AM)
pwolanin [~pwolanin at drupal.org/user/49851/view] entered the room. (10:37:47 AM)
arianek [~arianek at S0106001b63f4b826.vc.shawcable.net] entered the room. (10:38:03 AM)
marsilainen [~matt at] entered the room. (10:38:04 AM)
arianek left the room (quit: Changing host). (10:38:07 AM)
arianek [~arianek at drupal.org/user/158886/view] entered the room. (10:38:07 AM)
stella [~stella at] entered the room. (10:38:33 AM)
jjdonson [~jjdonson at pool-108-41-8-217.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] entered the room. (10:38:35 AM)
churel_ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds). (10:38:39 AM)
10:39:04 AM darthsteven: Does a D7 issue that is about a test that would cause a fail if it were testing correctly count as a critical issue?
iszak [~iszak at unaffiliated/supavisah] entered the room. (10:39:32 AM)

It's impossible to understate how fundamentally damaging this shift is.

We've relegated the architects, the builders, the collaborators, the "doers"—the people who fundamentally make the Drupal project what it is and are the heart and soul of our culture—to their own "sub" community in a hidden silo off to the side. We've taught newcomers to the project that IRC is the place to consume, to get help, to make demands, to *take*. And we've created both a physical and psychological divide between "us" and "them," where it used to be all "us". And, most distressingly, there is no longer a pathway for going between "them" and "us" because most of "us" have long since stopped going to #drupal due to the volume of support that happens there now since there is no one left to enforce the culture of getting involved.

We've repeated this "retreat into our shell" pattern over and over again. IRC (#drupal -> #drupal-contribute), mailing lists (development -> groups/issue queues), the forums (issue queues). What we're left with now is an entire "generation" of Drupal users who think Drupal.org is a place to *consume*, not a place to *participate*.

In the end, I have absolutely no idea where Drupal 9 core/contrib developers are going to come from. And that is absolutely terrifying.


And, fwiw, I "called" this inevitable outcome back in 2009 when this shift was proposed: http://drupal.org/node/634486#comment-2272630 Bleh. :(

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/development/attachments/20110318/931b20b7/attachment-0001.html 

More information about the development mailing list