[development] #drupal and #drupal-contribute split (Was: Re: Proposal: Move all dev support off this list to new StackExchange site)

[Earl Miles]

On 3/18/2011 3:23 PM, Sam Tresler wrote:
> How do we make an infrastructure that supports newcomers, facilitates
> developers, concentrates on non-disruptive integration of factions, and
> keeps our community strong?"  When I say 'you won't please everybody' I
> mean it, but I feel like the current conversation is please A or please
> B, there is no C.

Good question. Right now a lot of the conversation is between a camp
that can't handle an everything-in-one place system versus a camp that
thinks the soloing is bad.

I personally don't see a universe where siloing doesn't happen. Either
it happens officially or not, and officially makes it easier to figure
out where the silos are and enter them. If they're unofficial silos,
then they *are* going to come off extremely elitist.

So one thing I'm noticing from earlier: #drupal-dev is actually closed
and gone. Because it's been made invite-only, and that happened quite
some time back, a number of people now think it's a developer hideout.
Only it's not -- NO one is invited there. Not even Druplicon. (Neil, not
trying to pick on you; I also heard a similar story at least once on IRC
today as well, by someone who didn't know #drupal-dev had been shut down).

Perhaps one issue is this: It's perfectly okay to come into
#drupal-contribute and lurk. One of the reasons for #drupal-contribute
is that we can focus the topic. IF we tell someone they're off topic
there, it's a lot clearer that someone has crossed the line just due to
the name of the channel. #drupal by itself has no clarity of naming, and
no one reads topics. Telling people they're off topic in #drupal very
quickly leads to hurt feelings because it's not immediately super clear
what actually is on topic there. And this is one of the underlying
reasons: Focused, topical channels are flat out easier to deal with. I
don't think I have a problem at all with #drupal-contribute
becoming/being a high volume channel if it's full of people, you know,
contributing. That means we're doing awesome.

So what I think what webchick *really* wants is a way for #drupal to be
step one, where you go, maybe get help, get indoctrinated, and don't
have to worry about being yelled at for being off topic, and once you've
gotten your feet wet or gotten used to the fact that the water's kind of
cold, you can start moving into more focused areas, armed with the
knowledge of how to do it. We all know that new people on IRC simply
aren't going to know netiquette, but that doesn't make it any less
irritating when that netiquette is not followed.

Maybe we need to do a better job of saying, "Hey, come and lurk in
#drupal-contribute". YOu can learn a lot just by watching conversations
in there. It doesn't fit everyone's personalities, though. One thing
those of us who spend a LOT of time on IRC forget is that there's a
large swath of contributors who spend almost no time on IRC at all. For
some people, IRC is just fundamentally unfriendly.