Op woensdag 8 maart 2006 13:00, schreef Stefan Nagtegaal:

...

http://www.mollio.org/ please =)

I had a quick glance. Very (very!) nice but a lot of buts, for porting to Drupal: * The Drupal label output and form output is very different. We need to change core if we want to support this. * Drupal has a lot of default content styles that will conflect with these styles. * Drupal outputs a lot more HTML in general then this theme uses. The styles will need to become a lot more complex. * Drupal uses DIVs for 90% of its wrapping. Mollio uses much more spans, p-s and UL/LIs for all this. In common, I find themeing for drupal goes as follows: 1. Good HTML mockup (mollio themes!) 2. Port to page.tpl node.tpl and other components. Mostly copy-paste work. 3. Find all the cruft, define all the unused dynamically generated wrappers and change the style definitions accordingly (ie: ul#menu li, suddenly becomes #nav .item-list ul li). Try to remove/reorder as much as possible with theme functions. Esp 3 is a HUGE jub. And I find myself very often changing the complete source of my initial design because I found that Drupal outputs its DOM in such a way, that it breaks my initial design. And that theme fnuctions are going to be so complex (including pregging) that Its better to rethink the initial ideas. 1 and 2 are, as I see it very simple to do with mollio. #3 is going to give trouble. If you want the cleanness of mollio, (and you will want that, because it is its foundation) you will end up with an enormous, unmaintainable and un-understandable (with all due respect, though) template.php as civicspace theme has. Bèr -- | Bèr Kessels | webschuur.com | website development | | Jabber & Google Talk: ber@jabber.webschuur.com | http://bler.webschuur.com | http://www.webschuur.com | Sympal draait nu voor het grootste deel al op 4.7: http://help.sympal.nl/sympal_draait_nu_voor_het_grootste_deel_al_op_4_7

Op woensdag 8 maart 2006 14:52, schreef Theodore Serbinski:

I agree. That is why I started putting in lots of patches to core to fix problems like this. There are still some bigger areas that need attention, like forms and search results, but overall though, things are getting better.

I'll see what I can do about some more patches to clean up HTML and CSS markup.

Yea. But I did not mean that as a rant. Often Drupals output is very well thought trough. And is correct in 90% of the cases. You cannot get HTML that will suit everyone. That is my point. If you make drupal output VERY clean HTML, then you'll get a lot of people who need an extra wrapper here and there (to add sliding doors, for example). Whatever you need, you will need to alter the source, in theme_ fnuctiions, if you want to end up with your ideal source. ;) Bèr -- | Bèr Kessels | webschuur.com | website development | | Jabber & Google Talk: ber@jabber.webschuur.com | http://bler.webschuur.com | http://www.webschuur.com | Sympal draait nu voor het grootste deel al op 4.7: http://help.sympal.nl/sympal_draait_nu_voor_het_grootste_deel_al_op_4_7

On 08 Mar 2006, at 4:39 PM, Khalid B wrote:

At one point there was a proposal to document what ids/classes Drupal uses. This would have helped standardize this area, but the problem would not have gone away completely.

What I would like to see us do, is remove all html from module files and move them into tpl.php files. while we are doing this, we completely refactor all the html, and make sure all the tags we generate are there because we need them. Additionally once this is done , you can override any theme function by just copying the file to your theme directory, no fucking around with template.php. It becomes a LOT simpler to write a theme editor, as you can just load the contents of these files into a text area and have the user edit that and cache it into the db. it loads a lot less code, as you will never load any html without it being needed. file_exists is also incredibly fast, as it caches in both php and the filesystem, but if that's not fast enough we can still cache in drupal to make sure it only does a check on the first request. it becomes possible to distribute alternative template files, like different node views etc. and that, is very honestly just the tip of the iceberg of benefits that moving to template files for theme functions provide. the first step is getting all modules in their own directory though. -- Adrian Rossouw Drupal developer and Bryght Guy http://drupal.org | http://bryght.com

Op woensdag 8 maart 2006 16:17, schreef Adrian Rossouw:

What I would like to see us do, is remove all html from module files   and move them into tpl.php files.

while we are doing this, we completely refactor all the html, and   make sure all the tags we generate are  there because we need them.

AKA brickslate[1]. Everything is a brick. A page is built up from bricks: [] = a brick, [ can be a <div>, <p> or <ul> or any other thing. ] is the corresponding </div>, </p> or </ul> or else. [ [My Title] [Submitted By] [[image][yadyyadyya yadyyadyya yadyyadyya]] [[read more ] [ post a comment]] ] Is a simple node: build from bottom up, then glued together to make new bricks. These bricks are glued together to make more bricks and those are glued together ..... etc.... and those are glued together to make the SupahBrick: the page. The three big parts are still: * How to minimize HTML for bricks (some want IDS and classes and subclasses, others nothing but a simple <p>) * How to differ inline (span), blocks (divs) for general wrappers. * How to define what XHTML element is used best, for non general wrappers/bricks: uls, ps, div, etc. This is where I am right now, about. Bèr [1] More http://www.webschuur.com/node/479 -- [ End user Drupal services and hosting | Sympal.nl ] Sympal draait nu voor het grootste deel al op 4.7: http://help.sympal.nl/sympal_draait_nu_voor_het_grootste_deel_al_op_4_7

Nick Lewis wrote:

Adrian Rossouw wrote:

...

http://www.mollio.org/

please =)

Um... how does over the course of a few days sound? Best set of templates I've ever seen...

When one of my clients saw these they had "I WANT I WANT" written all over their face. Let's set up a way to collaborate because I've got some paid time to help with the effort (though I'm not a very good themer). Nick, if you could describe tasks that would fit into the larger whole, I would be able to look at the task list and do the ones I feel capable of. -Robert

On 08 Mar 2006, at 2:15 PM, Brian Puccio wrote:

We all read digg here?

Not something you can just assume =) -- Adrian Rossouw Drupal developer and Bryght Guy http://drupal.org | http://bryght.com

On 8-Mar-06, at 1:31 PM, Rowan Kerr wrote:

Adrian Rossouw wrote:

...

http://www.mollio.org/ please =)

I've got it sorta-working, although IE doesn't like it yet and there are some drupal.css issues to overcome.

Made some updates for HEAD (4.7) and fixed tabs.. http://stasis.org/~rowan/projects/drupal-example-theme/mollio-drupal- screenshot.png

Thanks for doing this Rowan. Did you get to the table and form styling yet? Those are nice features of this theme.

FYI - your active dhtml menu does not persist the red background like the original template.

One thing I don't love about this theme is the bullet on lists. It is just as ugly as current drupal menu bullets (which are less horrid now than they used to be - thanks steven and JVD). would be nice to put in a sexy graphic there, or just use standard circle bullets.

Please move this thread to themes@drupal.org! Thanks. -- Dries Buytaert :: http://buytaert.net/

Kieran Lal wrote:

As a side note we have people demanding that new mailing lists be set up for events management but at the same time existing lists like documentation and themes are running at or close to idle. It's pretty hard to keep defending that Drupal work be coordinated through drupal.org if we don't even use our own tools.

I've seen consistently that throwing technology at a problem does not create productivity. This includes mailing lists and wikis. I'm still trying to figure out how to get SocialText to stop mailing me at arbitrary times about "recent" changes in wikis that were made during and after Dean's campaign and haven't been touched since. I've seen more than a couple topical mailing lists do exactly this in DeanSpace and CivicSpace. -- Neil Drumm http://delocalizedham.com/

On Wednesday 08 March 2006 02:21 pm, Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:

"trying to solve social issues with technology".

I really do like mailing lists, but considering the traffic, I am this (-><-) short of disbanding the support and translations ML (after some discussion with the right people, of course).

Cheers, Gerhard

It may not be as much as the development list, but the support list does get traffic and people do use it. Some people, like myself, prefer mail lists to forums (push rather than pull). If I have to go to it, I'm not likely to, which is why I read (scan, actually) the forums through RSS. If I have to go to it, I'm likely to get distracted by other things and forget all about it for a week or more. Now, the translations list is another matter. :^) -- Jason Flatt http://www.oadae.net/ Father of Six: http://www.flattfamily.com/ (Joseph, 13; Cramer, 11; Travis, 9; Angela; Harry, 5; and William, 12:04 am, 12-29-2005) Linux User: http://www.sourcemage.org/ Drupal Fanatic: http://drupal.org/

Karthik wrote:

...

...

I really do like mailing lists, but considering the traffic, I am this (-><-) short of disbanding the support and translations ML (after some discussion with the right people, of course).

I believe that some advertising might help as I'm not certain many people are aware of their existence. Perhaps adding appropriate links in sigs might help draw attention.

You can say that again. When I stumbled on the mail subscriptions (after a couple of months), my eyes were opened. sime

Op woensdag 8 maart 2006 20:47, schreef Kieran Lal:

Unfortunately, it's not really taken off because people(Adrian, Ber,   Nick this week alone) keep posting theme related issues to the   development list.  There hasn't been a new post since Feb 26th on the   themes list.

My mail client tells me different. However: its hard to change old habits. We should all keep an eye on this. And reply to the correct list with our anwser. In addition a reply to the original list telling that the discussion is moved to next door, should be posted. (cross posting this to development, because that is where the bad, bad, posters hang out :)) Bèr -- | Bèr Kessels | webschuur.com | website development | | Jabber & Google Talk: ber@jabber.webschuur.com | http://bler.webschuur.com | http://www.webschuur.com | Hoe het naviatie blok te verbergen: http://help.sympal.nl/hoe_het_naviatie_blok_te_verbergen