Hi, Just an update about the Delicious Zen theme. I have made some changes after the last round of emails/comments. At this point I would like to ask for feedback regarding compatibility of the theme. Please, no more comments at this time about design such as color, font sizes, etc...what we need to do is iron out problems like browser compatibility and accessibility. Particularly discrepancies in alignment and white space. The theme should work perfectly in FireFox. There are 3 minor issues with IE that I noted in the issue queue. Another browser cam snapshot would probably help. Demo: http://www.drupalart.org/drupal48 Issue: http://drupal.org/node/81217 Download: http://drupal.org/files/issues/delicious_zen_14.zip __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
At this point I would like to ask for feedback regarding compatibility of the theme. Please, no more
Yeah! It's not liquid! -1! (Kidding! Kidding! ROFFLE.) -- Morbus Iff ( a blivet is 11 pounds of manure in a 10 pound sack ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
1. Border around forms too thick 2. Submitted by now looks less sexy [I liked the icons] 3. Mission statement is blah. 4. Divider bar between links and content has gotten bigger? Different color from forms? 5. Padding at the top of sidebar-right is too thin. 6. Distance between Mission statement, and bar above should be the same as between bottom of mission statement and the node Title. Same spacing, of course, for sidebar-right top. 7. Font on search button and login buttons... icky. Sans please. Or make the font smaller Other than that, it looks great. :) Ps. Didn't I mention somewhere on these threads that design by commitee doesn't work? In the end, I'd be very surprised if we end up with a theme that looks professional and worthy to represent Drupal. I hope I'm proven wrong. The theme in it's current state: Sat, Sep 23, 8:57am Eastern, would be ok for a submitted theme, but not polished enough for core IMHO. On 9/23/06, Farsheed <tfarsheed@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi,
Just an update about the Delicious Zen theme. I have made some changes after the last round of emails/comments.
At this point I would like to ask for feedback regarding compatibility of the theme. Please, no more comments at this time about design such as color, font sizes, etc...what we need to do is iron out problems like browser compatibility and accessibility. Particularly discrepancies in alignment and white space.
The theme should work perfectly in FireFox. There are 3 minor issues with IE that I noted in the issue queue. Another browser cam snapshot would probably help.
Demo: http://www.drupalart.org/drupal48
Issue: http://drupal.org/node/81217
Download: http://drupal.org/files/issues/delicious_zen_14.zip
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-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com
Trae McCombs wrote:
1. Border around forms too thick
7. Font on search button and login buttons... icky. Sans please. Or make the font smaller
I ran the submit button colors (white on light blue) through a constrast checker [1] and found that there isn't nearly enough contrast in there. I really think we should stick to non-themed forms. Most forms on the web and in UIs look like the standard OS widgets. Leaving them non-themed increases consistency and ability to quickly scan a page and figure out what is what. 1. http://snook.ca/technical/colour_contrast/colour.html -- Neil Drumm http://delocalizedham.com/
I ran the submit button colors (white on light blue) through a constrast checker [1] and found that there isn't nearly enough contrast in there.
I still hate changing standard UI elements. Ugly ugly ugly. With that said, the upload.module's "Attach" button is not themed.
I really think we should stick to non-themed forms. Most forms on the web and in UIs look like the standard OS widgets. Leaving them
Yes! Please, please, please. As I've said before, these buttons don't really look like buttons anymore. -- Morbus Iff ( two! four! six! eight! who do god and jesus hate! ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
In Safari, the icons next to various items, such as "1 comment" and "42 reads" is right up against the letters themselves - doesn't appear to be any padding there. -- Morbus Iff ( two! four! six! eight! who do god and jesus hate! ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
I'll just chime in and say that I think unthemed form elements is one of the things that presently makes Drupal look very, very, very unprofessional compared to the many cleverly themed CMS packages out there. If people can't grasp that the square puffy thing with the word 'SUBMIT' on it is the submit button, let's not blame ourselves. drumm's point about contrast is a good one, but in general theming of the form elements is a good thing. Default form widgets look like *ass*. They're a festering boil on any well-designed theme, and they switch and shift from platform to platform as well. And for that matter, I like the two-pixel border on form elements. I LIKE it. Hah! --Jeff
I like form elements that are themed to fit better in the overall scheme is far better looking that the default form elements. Having said that, I agree with Trae that the current implementation is bad. I liked them better when they were thin.
If people can't grasp that the square puffy thing with the word 'SUBMIT' on it is the submit button, let's not blame ourselves. drumm's point
Actually, it's not square and puffy - until someone actually mentioned it, I never even /noticed/ the borders on these things. It looks nothing like the buttons in Joomla or Wordpress. It just looks like a blue square. Joomla's screenshots either show a) a default UI button or b) a button that has been themed to look like a button, whereas Wordpres's themeshots shows a button that has been themed to give it a 3D/gradient feel to make it look like a button. -- Morbus Iff ( *splutch* ... /me respawns ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
I really think we should stick to non-themed forms. Most forms on the web and in UIs look like the standard OS widgets.
Perhaps a compromise would be to only theme the search and user login forms, and leave the rest as default to maximize accessibility. The other option would be to leave the standard button look but to change the colors. Yahoo does this, for instance.
Leaving them non-themed increases consistency and ability to quickly scan a page and figure out what is what.
1.
http://snook.ca/technical/colour_contrast/colour.html
-- Neil Drumm http://delocalizedham.com/
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1. Border around forms too thick
2. Submitted by now looks less sexy [I liked the icons]
3. Mission statement is blah.
As stated before, I would like to avoid these types of issues at this time. It is impossible to design the perfect theme. Some people will be happy, some people won't be happy. If you disagree enough, please step up to the plate and provide some code. Right now I'm trying to figure out why things melt and fall to pieces in certain browsers. Farsheed
4. Divider bar between links and content has gotten bigger? Different color from forms?
5. Padding at the top of sidebar-right is too thin.
6. Distance between Mission statement, and bar above should be the same as between bottom of mission statement and the node Title. Same spacing, of course, for sidebar-right top.
7. Font on search button and login buttons... icky. Sans please. Or make the font smaller
Other than that, it looks great. :)
Ps. Didn't I mention somewhere on these threads that design by commitee doesn't work? In the end, I'd be very surprised if we end up with a theme that looks professional and worthy to represent Drupal. I hope I'm proven wrong.
The theme in it's current state: Sat, Sep 23, 8:57am Eastern, would be ok for a submitted theme, but not polished enough for core IMHO.
On 9/23/06, Farsheed <tfarsheed@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi,
Just an update about the Delicious Zen theme. I
have
made some changes after the last round of emails/comments.
At this point I would like to ask for feedback regarding compatibility of the theme. Please, no more comments at this time about design such as color, font sizes, etc...what we need to do is iron out problems like browser compatibility and accessibility. Particularly discrepancies in alignment and white space.
The theme should work perfectly in FireFox. There are 3 minor issues with IE that I noted in the issue queue. Another browser cam snapshot would probably help.
Demo: http://www.drupalart.org/drupal48
Issue: http://drupal.org/node/81217
Download:
http://drupal.org/files/issues/delicious_zen_14.zip
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
At this point I would like to ask for feedback regarding compatibility of the theme. Please, no more
What about comments along the line of "can't get it to work like yours?" I've installed the version you provided in the thread, and my Primary links are BELOW the blue line, with the breadcrumb floated up against them (not on a new line). Likewise, with og installed and no groups, hitting /og has EVERYTHING floated to the left of the primary links, which looks downright silly. Nor can I get any of my secondary links to display anywhere on the site, be it above the line or below. -- Morbus Iff ( notice how he deftly sidesteps the panty issue. ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
What about comments along the line of "can't get it to work like yours?" I've installed the version you provided in the thread, and my Primary links are BELOW the blue line, with the breadcrumb floated up against them (not on a new line). Likewise, with og installed and no groups, hitting /og has EVERYTHING floated to the left of the primary links, which looks downright silly. Nor can I get any of my secondary links to display anywhere on the site, be it above the line or below.
More: * menu bullets don't show up in Safari. * Hitting /user when non-auth'd shows "edit primary links" in the location of the primary links, not the actual links themselves. To some degree, this is what I want (since this particular use case is entirely protected, so there ARE no accessible links to the anonymous user), but it's still surprising (and is probably a bug somewhere Not In The Theme). -- Morbus Iff ( two! four! six! eight! who do god and jesus hate! ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
Morbus Iff wrote:
* Hitting /user when non-auth'd shows "edit primary links" in the location of the primary links, not the actual links themselves. To some degree, this is what I want (since this particular use case is entirely protected, so there ARE no accessible links to the anonymous user), but it's still surprising (and is probably a bug somewhere Not In The Theme).
This is a menu system issue; that's just what it does when there are no primary links but it has been instructed to show them. You are definitely right about it not being in the theme.
On 9/23/06, Morbus Iff <morbus@disobey.com> wrote:
* Hitting /user when non-auth'd shows "edit primary links" in the location of the primary links, not the actual links themselves. To some degree, this is what I want (since this particular use case is entirely protected, so there ARE no accessible links to the anonymous user), but it's still surprising (and is probably a bug somewhere Not In The Theme).
That's a separate issue: http://drupal.org/node/42826 It has a patch that seems reasonable to me. Regards, Greg -- Greg Knaddison | Growing Venture Solutions Denver, CO | http://growingventuresolutions.com Technology Solutions for Communities, Individuals, and Small Businesses
What about comments along the line of "can't get it to work like yours?"
That's the type of feedback I'm looking for. It should be noted that this theme is being developed against HEAD. Just in case people are trying to run it with 4.7. Morbus, I'm guessing you are using HEAD but I just want to double check. Farsheed
I've installed the version you provided in the thread, and my Primary links are BELOW the blue line, with the breadcrumb floated up against them (not on a new line). Likewise, with og installed and no groups, hitting /og has EVERYTHING floated to the left of the primary links, which looks downright silly. Nor can I get any of my secondary links to display anywhere on the site, be it above the line or below.
-- Morbus Iff ( notice how he deftly sidesteps the panty issue. ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
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That's the type of feedback I'm looking for.
It should be noted that this theme is being developed against HEAD. Just in case people are trying to run it with 4.7. Morbus, I'm guessing you are using HEAD but I just want to double check.
Actually, I'm using this for a brand new internal site which is 4.7. You're thinking that the primary/secondary menus (and, more oddly, the breadcrumb float?) aren't working as designed due to 4.7/HEAD? I'm wondering: perhaps the theme is inheriting things, in HEAD, from the default style.css, that aren't in drupal.css for 4.7? If that is the case, I'd almost want to argue that a more portable theme would NOT inherit anything from the defaults. -- Morbus Iff ( I'd prefer my past to be multiple choice. ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
Hello everyone, I personally no longer feel this theme is up to the quality that it should be to be released as the replacement theme in core. There are too many tiny details that add up to "The Great Unpolished" theme. A few times along the way, the theme was quite close, but needed a bit of nudging in the right direction. Now, it has faltered completely and is back to a sub-par theme. What needs to happen is... Get either myself, or Steven, or some other themer from the community to take it the last final steps along the way. And we live with whatever that person does. I have the time to dedicate to it, and can spend 20/30hrs on this next week if someone allows me to do so. Design by committee won't as the current status of the theme proves, work. Please, let's get this right. Drupal deserves the best we can give it. Trae Note: This isn't in reply to Morbus... just a general comment on the thread and the theme. On 9/23/06, Morbus Iff <morbus@disobey.com> wrote:
That's the type of feedback I'm looking for.
It should be noted that this theme is being developed against HEAD. Just in case people are trying to run it with 4.7. Morbus, I'm guessing you are using HEAD but I just want to double check.
Actually, I'm using this for a brand new internal site which is 4.7. You're thinking that the primary/secondary menus (and, more oddly, the breadcrumb float?) aren't working as designed due to 4.7/HEAD? I'm wondering: perhaps the theme is inheriting things, in HEAD, from the default style.css, that aren't in drupal.css for 4.7? If that is the case, I'd almost want to argue that a more portable theme would NOT inherit anything from the defaults.
-- Morbus Iff ( I'd prefer my past to be multiple choice. ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com
Trae McCombs wrote:
Hello everyone,
I personally no longer feel this theme is up to the quality that it should be to be released as the replacement theme in core. There are too many tiny details that add up to "The Great Unpolished" theme.
Hi, so do I. I think it is caused by these thick-border inputs, weird submit buttons and too unpolished secondary links. I think a "rollback" with these issues will be great. Jakub P.S.: Recent blog posts need a little padding to the right.
On 9/23/06, Trae McCombs <traemccombs@gmail.com> wrote:
What needs to happen is... Get either myself, or Steven, or some other themer from the community to take it the last final steps along the way. And we live with whatever that person does. I have the time to dedicate to it, and can spend 20/30hrs on this next week if someone allows me to do so.
Who or what is holding you back? Just do it. When you're done we can all bask in the glory of your theme. Greg -- Greg Knaddison | Growing Venture Solutions Denver, CO | http://growingventuresolutions.com Technology Solutions for Communities, Individuals, and Small Businesses
A few times along the way, the theme was quite close, but needed a bit of nudging in the right direction. Now, it has faltered completely and is back to a sub-par theme.
I have actually implemented 90% of the suggestions you made, Trae. How did we go from "quite close" to "sub-par theme"?
What needs to happen is... Get either myself, or Steven, or some other themer from the community to take it the last final steps along the way.
Nobody else has stepped up. Be my guest.
And we live with whatever that person does. I have the time to dedicate to it, and can spend 20/30hrs on this next week if someone allows me to do so.
Go for it. Personally I've probably already put over 60 unpaid hours into this theme. We are on revision #14 now. I encourage (and need) more people to work on this. Either by contributing alternative themes or helping fix this one.
Design by committee won't as the current status of the theme proves, work.
Stay positive and it will work. -Farsheed __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Farsheed, You have done GREAT work. I don't want to take anything away from that. But you are a programmer implementing other peoples ideas. I'll be glad to step up and do it, but I won't be submitting my ideas to a committee for approval. As I said before, Dries, needs to commission someone to have the ultimate vision for this theme, and go forth and make it happen. I thought what you had before, with the icons and other little touches were quite nice. Some times, with a theme, it only takes a 5 percent tweak here or there to go from great to meh. I know you've been pulled every which way but loose on this thing, and we, the community, owe you a great debt of gratitude. Please don't think that I don't appreciate what you've done. I only want what's best for Drupal, and that is a great awesome theme. If I get the nod from Dries, I'll be happy to crank on this theme to make it top notch. Or if Dries wants to go with someone else, that's cool. Whoever is going to do it, needs to be picked and then that person needs to be able to do what he or she feels is best. Peace love and bananas, Trae ... now off to run 14 miles... joy. On 9/24/06, Farsheed <tfarsheed@yahoo.com> wrote:
A few times along the way, the theme was quite close, but needed a bit of nudging in the right direction. Now, it has faltered completely and is back to a sub-par theme.
I have actually implemented 90% of the suggestions you made, Trae. How did we go from "quite close" to "sub-par theme"?
What needs to happen is... Get either myself, or Steven, or some other themer from the community to take it the last final steps along the way.
Nobody else has stepped up. Be my guest.
And we live with whatever that person does. I have the time to dedicate to it, and can spend 20/30hrs on this next week if someone allows me to do so.
Go for it. Personally I've probably already put over 60 unpaid hours into this theme. We are on revision #14 now. I encourage (and need) more people to work on this. Either by contributing alternative themes or helping fix this one.
Design by committee won't as the current status of the theme proves, work.
Stay positive and it will work.
-Farsheed
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-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com
But you are a programmer implementing other peoples ideas.
If I only had a brain... ;)
I thought what you had before, with the icons and other little touches were quite nice. Some times, with a theme, it only takes a 5 percent tweak here or there to go from great to meh.
That's great to hear. 5 percent is easy to fix.
I know you've been pulled every which way but loose on this thing, and we, the community, owe you a great debt of gratitude. Please don't think that I don't appreciate what you've done.
I am not offended or anything. I just want a new theme to get into core. :) Ok, I'd really like to bring the focus back here: Browser compatibility with the theme. Design issues can be noted in the issue queue. Farsheed
On 9/24/06, Farsheed <tfarsheed@yahoo.com> wrote:
A few times along the way, the theme was quite close, but needed a bit of nudging in the right direction. Now, it has faltered completely and is back to a sub-par theme.
I have actually implemented 90% of the suggestions
you
made, Trae. How did we go from "quite close" to "sub-par theme"?
What needs to happen is... Get either myself, or Steven, or some other themer from the community to take it the last final steps along the way.
Nobody else has stepped up. Be my guest.
And we live with whatever that person does. I have the time to dedicate to it, and can spend 20/30hrs on this next week if someone allows me to do so.
Go for it. Personally I've probably already put over 60 unpaid hours into this theme. We are on revision #14 now. I encourage (and need) more people to work on this. Either by contributing alternative themes or helping fix this one.
Design by committee won't as the current status of the theme proves, work.
Stay positive and it will work.
-Farsheed
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com
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On 9/24/06, Trae McCombs <traemccombs@gmail.com> wrote:
Farsheed,
You have done GREAT work. I don't want to take anything away from that. But you are a programmer implementing other peoples ideas.
I'll be glad to step up and do it, but I won't be submitting my ideas to a committee for approval. As I said before, Dries, needs to commission someone to have the ultimate vision for this theme, and go forth and make it happen.
Umm...the Drupal community IS a committee....and Dries is the final arbiter after weighing input. I do agree that a community of developers is not going to have the best feedback about *design* elements. Farsheed is asking for feedback about browser/module/etc. compatability -- please stay on target. -- Boris Mann Vancouver 778-896-2747 San Francisco 415-367-3595 Skype borismann http://www.bryght.com
On 9/24/06, Boris Mann <boris@bryght.com> wrote:
Umm...the Drupal community IS a committee....and Dries is the final arbiter after weighing input.
Just because the Drupal community is a committee, doesn't mean it's the best way to design a theme. I would never dispute that Dries has the final say-so. I hope you aren't suggesting I felt otherwise. I do agree that a community of developers is not going to have the
best feedback about *design* elements.
We obviously do a smash-up job on code when it comes to the comittee model. Farsheed is asking for feedback about browser/module/etc.
compatability -- please stay on target.
If I feel the theme is sub-par, and isn't fit for Drupal 5.0, then I do believe I have a right to say so. I feel I will be doing the community a disservice if I simply shut up and let a theme that wasn't great get pushed through. If Dries tells me to be quiet about it, then I will. After all, it's his decision in the long run. I am staying on target by making sure that an "ugly" theme doesn't make it to be the default theme for Drupal 5.0. --
Boris Mann Vancouver 778-896-2747 San Francisco 415-367-3595 Skype borismann http://www.bryght.com
-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com
Trae McCombs wrote:
On 9/24/06, Boris Mann <boris@bryght.com> wrote:
I am staying on target by making sure that an "ugly" theme doesn't make it to be the default theme for Drupal 5.0.
Was it slated to be the default theme? I wouldn't want a default theme that doesn't show Druplicon on a prominent place. Cheers, Gerhard
On 9/24/06, Gerhard Killesreiter <gerhard@killesreiter.de> wrote:
Trae McCombs wrote:
On 9/24/06, Boris Mann <boris@bryght.com> wrote:
I am staying on target by making sure that an "ugly" theme doesn't make it to be the default theme for Drupal 5.0.
Was it slated to be the default theme? I wouldn't want a default theme that doesn't show Druplicon on a prominent place.
Yes...the point of a new core theme would be the inclusion of it as the default. -- Boris Mann Vancouver 778-896-2747 San Francisco 415-367-3595 Skype borismann http://www.bryght.com
Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
Trae McCombs wrote:
On 9/24/06, Boris Mann <boris@bryght.com> wrote:
I am staying on target by making sure that an "ugly" theme doesn't make it to be the default theme for Drupal 5.0.
Was it slated to be the default theme? I wouldn't want a default theme that doesn't show Druplicon on a prominent place.
I think that is okay to not have as a hard requirement. I think a better statement on branding would be "It should look recognizable as Drupal, once deployed on a bunch of new sites, for the sorts of people who notice such things." (I've been able to recognize a few CMSes on arbitrary sites without thinking about it for awhile now- I'm not sure if this is a good thing or if I should close the laptop and go outside.) -- Neil Drumm http://delocalizedham.com/
I understand the desire to have it look "Drupal"-y, I'm personally OK with having a link to Drupal.org via some sort of "Powered by Drupal" button. I originaly thought perhaps it'd be ok to be in the Footer, but maybe we should keep said link/image "Above the fold" [Top immediately viewable half of the browser window] so people can see it. Trae On 9/24/06, Neil Drumm <drumm@delocalizedham.com> wrote:
Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
Trae McCombs wrote:
On 9/24/06, Boris Mann <boris@bryght.com> wrote:
I am staying on target by making sure that an "ugly" theme doesn't make it to be the default theme for Drupal 5.0.
Was it slated to be the default theme? I wouldn't want a default theme that doesn't show Druplicon on a prominent place.
I think that is okay to not have as a hard requirement. I think a better statement on branding would be "It should look recognizable as Drupal, once deployed on a bunch of new sites, for the sorts of people who notice such things."
(I've been able to recognize a few CMSes on arbitrary sites without thinking about it for awhile now- I'm not sure if this is a good thing or if I should close the laptop and go outside.)
-- Neil Drumm http://delocalizedham.com/
-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com
Neil Drumm wrote:
Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
Trae McCombs wrote:
On 9/24/06, Boris Mann <boris@bryght.com> wrote:
I am staying on target by making sure that an "ugly" theme doesn't make it to be the default theme for Drupal 5.0.
Was it slated to be the default theme? I wouldn't want a default theme that doesn't show Druplicon on a prominent place.
I think that is okay to not have as a hard requirement. I think a better statement on branding would be "It should look recognizable as Drupal, once deployed on a bunch of new sites, for the sorts of people who notice such things."
Sorry, but I disagree. Branding needs to be more obvious.
(I've been able to recognize a few CMSes on arbitrary sites without thinking about it for awhile now- I'm not sure if this is a good thing or if I should close the laptop and go outside.)
Drinking some strange Belgian beers might help too. :p Cheers, Gerhard
At 6:34 PM +0200 25/9/06, Gerhard Killesreiter wrote:
I think that is okay to not have as a hard requirement. I think a better statement on branding would be "It should look recognizable as Drupal, once deployed on a bunch of new sites, for the sorts of people who notice such things."
Sorry, but I disagree. Branding needs to be more obvious.
I agree. As this is the default theme for new installs, the DrupalIcon and drupal brand should be very prominent in the header. The user can then tweak this branding to suit their requirements. There could also be a "Powered by Drupal" icon in the footer which the user may choose to leave alone, even after replacing the Drupal branding in the header. ...R.
On 9/24/06, Trae McCombs <traemccombs@gmail.com> wrote:
If Dries tells me to be quiet about it, then I will. After all, it's his decision in the long run.
It's not usually in Dries' style to tell anyone to be quiet...and not mine either.
I am staying on target by making sure that an "ugly" theme doesn't make it to be the default theme for Drupal 5.0.
This email thread is about browser compatibility (or was asked to be). Please start a "zen is still ugly to some parts of the committee" thread to discuss design. This *may* be better done as a wiki page with line items with people's names next to them. i.e. [Trae] Such and such doesn't look right. Suggest x pixels [Gerhard] Should include codename and logo for the Unicorn Schnapps Pony -- Boris Mann Vancouver 778-896-2747 San Francisco 415-367-3595 Skype borismann http://www.bryght.com
On 25 Sep 2006, at 1:33 AM, Trae McCombs wrote:
If I feel the theme is sub-par, and isn't fit for Drupal 5.0, then I do believe I have a right to say so. I feel I will be doing the community a disservice if I simply shut up and let a theme that wasn't great get pushed through.
i agree i believe this theme is incredibly useful in the same way that cleanslate and box_grey are useful. but due to it's nature, it's essentially an 'undesign' The only reason i think this could be a default core theme is because bluemarine blows so hard. I do not believe this should be the out of the box look though.
On 25 Sep 2006, at 01:33, Trae McCombs wrote:
Just because the Drupal community is a committee, doesn't mean it's the best way to design a theme. I would never dispute that Dries has the final say-so. I hope you aren't suggesting I felt otherwise.
Trae, the way this works is fairly simple: you take the theme and you try to make it better. You can do this in parallel with Farsheed's efforts. The end result is that we'll have two competing versions of the theme to choose from, and that we can learn from each other. With patches, we often do the same. In other words, go ahead and try to make improvements. -- Dries Buytaert :: http://www.buytaert.net/
This theme worked in Safari and Firefox on my Mac, but Internet Explorer 5.2 stopped responding before the page loaded. I've had this happen with another Drupal theme. I can get Internet Explorer to load the page only by disabling style sheets.
Op 24-sep-2006, om 14:53 heeft Darren Oh het volgende geschreven:
This theme worked in Safari and Firefox on my Mac, but Internet Explorer 5.2 stopped responding before the page loaded. I've had this happen with another Drupal theme. I can get Internet Explorer to load the page only by disabling style sheets. To be quite honoust I think we should not worry about IE 5.23 for OS X. There are plenty much better browsers (and for free) available for Mac. While it's not that hard to not load your stylesheets at all for IE 5.23/Mac, I am pretty sure that we should drop any way of support for it.
For the theme itself, I don't have an opinion.. I don't like it, it looks pretty "standard" to me, like any theme we have in the contrib repository. I can not see why it should stand out in any way compared to all the other ones.. To be honoust, I think there are living better themes in contrib, than this 'Deliciously Blue' theme.. Sorry, I *do* appreciate all your hard work on the theme but imo it does not meet the exclusiveness of a new core-worthy theme.. I hope you do not mind and have no hard feelings. It's just the way I feel about it.. Steef
On Sep 24, 2006, at 7:06 AM, Stefan Nagtegaal wrote:
To be quite honoust I think we should not worry about IE 5.23 for OS X. There are plenty much better browsers (and for free) available for Mac. While it's not that hard to not load your stylesheets at all for IE 5.23/Mac, I am pretty sure that we should drop any way of support for it.
IE/Mac is no longer supported by Microsoft, and is very very thin usage, according to all the stats I've seen. All the OSX Macs come with Safari as the default. Laura
I still have a few users with older Mac's running OS/9 and they can't switch to Safari or Firefox. I refer those few to iCab (http://icab.de), it runs on older Macs and has good standards support. On 9/25/06, Laura Scott <laura@pingv.com> wrote:
On Sep 24, 2006, at 7:06 AM, Stefan Nagtegaal wrote:
To be quite honoust I think we should not worry about IE 5.23 for OS X. There are plenty much better browsers (and for free) available for Mac. While it's not that hard to not load your stylesheets at all for IE 5.23/Mac, I am pretty sure that we should drop any way of support for it.
IE/Mac is no longer supported by Microsoft, and is very very thin usage, according to all the stats I've seen. All the OSX Macs come with Safari as the default.
Laura
-- Scott Burns <scott@lentigo.net> <http://www.lentigo.net/scott> pub 1024D/9DA64618 2001-11-17 Scott Burns <scott@lentigo.net> Fingerprint: 2F1B A22E 33C3 FD3D BBE4 D5E2 728B 4753 9DA6 4618
Well talking about numbers and usage i belive most of us know w3schools.com i'd like to point their statistics about web browser usage as a point of reference : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp Mac -----Original Message----- From: Laura Scott [mailto:laura@pingv.com] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 5:06 PM To: development@drupal.org Subject: Re: [development] 5.0 Core Theme Update On Sep 24, 2006, at 7:06 AM, Stefan Nagtegaal wrote:
To be quite honoust I think we should not worry about IE 5.23 for OS X. There are plenty much better browsers (and for free) available for Mac. While it's not that hard to not load your stylesheets at all for IE 5.23/Mac, I am pretty sure that we should drop any way of support for it.
IE/Mac is no longer supported by Microsoft, and is very very thin usage, according to all the stats I've seen. All the OSX Macs come with Safari as the default. Laura
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006, Maciek Perlinski wrote:
Well talking about numbers and usage i belive most of us know w3schools.com i'd like to point their statistics about web browser usage as a point of reference : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Maciek, it is pointless to pick an arbitrary website and see their stats. As the page you linked to notes: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- W3Schools is a website for people with an interest for web technologies. These people are more interested in using alternative browsers than the average user. The average user tends to use Internet Explorer, since it comes preinstalled with Windows. Most do not seek out other browsers. These facts indicate that the browser figures below are not 100% realistic. Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is used by at least 80% of the users. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Goba
Well I belive as well we should't bother with ie 5 for mac, but it would be nice to have the web browser usage from arbitrary source like w3c. Goba my mistake I was sure w3schools is a part of w3c but it's not so we shouldn't take it into account. On the other hand certain target group is using certain browsers. -----Original Message----- From: Gabor Hojtsy [mailto:gabor@hojtsy.hu] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 5:43 PM To: development@drupal.org Cc: Krzysztof Golinski Subject: RE: [development] 5.0 Core Theme Update On Mon, 25 Sep 2006, Maciek Perlinski wrote:
Well talking about numbers and usage i belive most of us know w3schools.com i'd like to point their statistics about web browser usage as a point of reference : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Maciek, it is pointless to pick an arbitrary website and see their stats. As the page you linked to notes: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- W3Schools is a website for people with an interest for web technologies. These people are more interested in using alternative browsers than the average user. The average user tends to use Internet Explorer, since it comes preinstalled with Windows. Most do not seek out other browsers. These facts indicate that the browser figures below are not 100% realistic. Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is used by at least 80% of the users. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Goba
For several radio stations across Canada, our browser usage is something like this: 90% IE (97% IE 6, 2% IE 7, 1% other) 8% Firefox 1.2% Safari 0.6% Netscape (mostly versions 7 and 8) 0.2% Opera And for operating system: 98% Windows (86% XP, 11% 2000, 3% 98) 1.8% Mac 0.2% Linux/Solaris/BSD Internet Explorer on Mac usage was barely a blip on the radar: Internet Explorer 5.23 - Macintosh PPC 0.04% Internet Explorer 5.17 - Macintosh PPC 0.02% Internet Explorer 5.0 - Macintosh PPC 0.01% nternet Explorer 5.22 - Macintosh PPC 0.01% Internet Explorer 5.16 - Macintosh PPC 0.01% For security reasons alone, IE Mac should be avoided, and that is reinforced when looking at the usage. It does not make sense to expend resources to support it. -Rowan
+1 what Rowan said On 9/25/06, Rowan Kerr <rowan@stasis.org> wrote:
For several radio stations across Canada, our browser usage is something like this: 90% IE (97% IE 6, 2% IE 7, 1% other) 8% Firefox 1.2% Safari 0.6% Netscape (mostly versions 7 and 8) 0.2% Opera
And for operating system: 98% Windows (86% XP, 11% 2000, 3% 98) 1.8% Mac 0.2% Linux/Solaris/BSD
Internet Explorer on Mac usage was barely a blip on the radar: Internet Explorer 5.23 - Macintosh PPC 0.04% Internet Explorer 5.17 - Macintosh PPC 0.02% Internet Explorer 5.0 - Macintosh PPC 0.01% nternet Explorer 5.22 - Macintosh PPC 0.01% Internet Explorer 5.16 - Macintosh PPC 0.01%
For security reasons alone, IE Mac should be avoided, and that is reinforced when looking at the usage. It does not make sense to expend resources to support it.
-Rowan
-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com
This site is often cited by designers and developers, but it is a very bad benchmark in this case. The reason is that the site's audience are technical. Therefore Mac and FireFox would be over-represented. The same goes for Drupal.org or Slashdot, ...etc. THESE SITES DO NOT REFLECT REALITY, only a subset of it. I wish Google would have left the browser info in the Zeitgeist. On 9/25/06, Maciek Perlinski <maciej.perlinski@meant4.com> wrote:
Well talking about numbers and usage i belive most of us know w3schools.com i'd like to point their statistics about web browser usage as a point of reference : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Mac -----Original Message----- From: Laura Scott [mailto:laura@pingv.com] Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 5:06 PM To: development@drupal.org Subject: Re: [development] 5.0 Core Theme Update
On Sep 24, 2006, at 7:06 AM, Stefan Nagtegaal wrote:
To be quite honoust I think we should not worry about IE 5.23 for OS X. There are plenty much better browsers (and for free) available for Mac. While it's not that hard to not load your stylesheets at all for IE 5.23/Mac, I am pretty sure that we should drop any way of support for it.
IE/Mac is no longer supported by Microsoft, and is very very thin usage, according to all the stats I've seen. All the OSX Macs come with Safari as the default.
Laura
Maciek Perlinski wrote:
Well talking about numbers and usage i belive most of us know w3schools.com i'd like to point their statistics about web browser usage as a point of reference : http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Yahoo have billions of hits per day and this is how they support browsers: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/gbs.html http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/articles/gbs/gbs_browser-chart.html Note that IE5 on the Mac has C-grade support which provides core content and functionality. I.e., so long as the site is readable and navigable no attention is paid to how it looks. They say that 3% of their visitors use C-grade browsers which is IE5.0 on any platform. I think it would be good to follow their model for browser support. -- Martin Tomes echo 'martin at tomes x org x uk'\ | sed -e 's/ x /\./g' -e 's/ at /@/' Visit http://www.subversionary.org/
^M's in the theme. Farsheed, please make sure you check your theme and remove the ^M's. I'm fairly certain they come from the fact you use some sort of Windows Text editor to edit the css. Don't know how to get rid of them in Windows, but I know you can do the following with SED: s/^M//g Be sure to do the ^M USING "CTRL-V CTRL-M" NOT BY TYPING "CARROT M"! This expression will replace all the ^M's that didn't have carriage returns after them with a carriage return. On 9/23/06, Farsheed <tfarsheed@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi,
Just an update about the Delicious Zen theme. I have made some changes after the last round of emails/comments.
At this point I would like to ask for feedback regarding compatibility of the theme. Please, no more comments at this time about design such as color, font sizes, etc...what we need to do is iron out problems like browser compatibility and accessibility. Particularly discrepancies in alignment and white space.
The theme should work perfectly in FireFox. There are 3 minor issues with IE that I noted in the issue queue. Another browser cam snapshot would probably help.
Demo: http://www.drupalart.org/drupal48
Issue: http://drupal.org/node/81217
Download: http://drupal.org/files/issues/delicious_zen_14.zip
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-- Trae McCombs || http://occy.net/ Founder - Themes.org // Linux.com
Trae McCombs wrote:
^M's in the theme.
Farsheed, please make sure you check your theme and remove the ^M's. I'm fairly certain they come from the fact you use some sort of Windows Text editor to edit the css. Don't know how to get rid of them in Windows, but I know you can do the following with SED:
|s/^M//g
| It's simpler to just use dos2unix (which is readily available if you don't already heave it).
Gary
Trae McCombs wrote:
^M's in the theme.
This is from windows carriage returns or...? Where does it appear in the theme? I can save the file in unix format using Notepad++, I'm just confused why this is appearing at all. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
This is from windows carriage returns or...? Where does it appear in the theme? I can save the file in unix format using Notepad++, I'm just confused why this is appearing at all.
There are three different formats of carriage returns, and when a Linux utility that only respects Linux carriage returns (\n) opens up a Windows file with Windows carriage returns (\r\n), the extra \r gets tranformed visually into a ^M. Your editor must /specifically/ support saving a file with Linux carriage returns (which it sounds like Notepad++ does). -- Morbus Iff ( whooooooo's hoooouuuuuse? ) Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/ icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus
participants (23)
-
adrian rossouw -
Boris Mann -
Darren Oh -
Dries Buytaert -
Earl Miles -
Farsheed -
Gabor Hojtsy -
Gary Feldman -
Gerhard Killesreiter -
Greg Knaddison - GVS -
Jakub Suchy -
Jeff Eaton -
Khalid B -
Laura Scott -
Maciek Perlinski -
Martin Tomes -
Morbus Iff -
Neil Drumm -
Richard Archer -
Rowan Kerr -
Scott Burns -
Stefan Nagtegaal -
Trae McCombs