We're beginning to describe a Drupal project that we feel is "wiki-ish" and I am thoroughly confused as to what would be needed to implement a "wiki" using drupal. It looks like wikitools provides some filters to translate between wiki markup and regular html, but for our purposes, that is the piece we care about least. (We intend to use tinyMCE or equivalent for markup--the users of this project will not be any happier with wiki markup than with html.)
So, what makes a page a wiki? We are thinking of a few primary elements:
1. The ability of any registered user to edit the page in a browser. (Note: Any registered Drupal user with appropriate permissions can do this with any Drupal page, as well.)
2. The ability to view the page's history and to roll back changes easily. (This may also be built into Drupal?)
3. The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
Are we really just talking about a standard Drupal book? When other people say 'wiki,' to what more are they referring (or is the "what more" wiki markup language?)
ari
Ari and folks,
To me the core functionalities of a Wiki are: 1. Versioning - each change is preserved 2. Diff - users can compare versions 3. Multiple user edit privileges to the same text (e.g. "node" in Drupal speak).
So lets apply that to Drupal. 1. Versioning is built in. Just make sure on the content-type edit page under workflow that revisions is turned on.
2. Diff - you need a module for that. Fortunately the diff modulehttp://drupal.org/project/diffis excellent and well developed/maintained.
3. The editing privileges you should be able to handle without adding any modules -- as long as the Wiki pages on your site get their own content-type - which you can do even without CCK (as long as you don't add any fields).
Starting with D5 you can use the Book module for nodes that have content types other than book. This is awesome. You do have to create one node for each book that was created using the book content-type. But then any node can be assigned to it via an "outline" tab which appears. However, this relates to the navigation/page organization you want to provide for folks -- and there are other solutions to using the Book module.
I do find there is a lot of confusion out there about what a Wiki is. I know a lot of teachers use Wikispaces.com simply as a place to build web pages, for themselves and for their students, with no intention of collaborative writing, manual creation, multiple editors for the same page, etc. My feeling is those pages aren't Wikis.
Shai
On 3/7/08, Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com wrote:
We're beginning to describe a Drupal project that we feel is "wiki-ish" and I am thoroughly confused as to what would be needed to implement a "wiki" using drupal. It looks like wikitools provides some filters to translate between wiki markup and regular html, but for our purposes, that is the piece we care about least. (We intend to use tinyMCE or equivalent for markup--the users of this project will not be any happier with wiki markup than with html.)
So, what makes a page a wiki? We are thinking of a few primary elements:
- The ability of any registered user to edit the page in a browser.
(Note: Any registered Drupal user with appropriate permissions can do this with any Drupal page, as well.)
- The ability to view the page's history and to roll back changes easily.
(This may also be built into Drupal?)
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
Are we really just talking about a standard Drupal book? When other people say 'wiki,' to what more are they referring (or is the "what more" wiki markup language?)
ari
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
Good points. Roetzi's sample drupal page (http://test.tschannen.net/ ) makes a point of including diff and recent changes, I presume for exactly the reason you describe, as well as node lock (two or more people simultaneously editing?), talk (for the metadiscussion), along with pearwiki filter and wikitools.
ari
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Shai Gluskin shai@content2zero.com wrote:
Ari and folks,
To me the core functionalities of a Wiki are:
- Versioning - each change is preserved
- Diff - users can compare versions
- Multiple user edit privileges to the same text (e.g. "node" in Drupal
speak).
So lets apply that to Drupal.
- Versioning is built in. Just make sure on the content-type edit page
under workflow that revisions is turned on.
Diff - you need a module for that. Fortunately the diff modulehttp://drupal.org/project/diffis excellent and well developed/maintained.
The editing privileges you should be able to handle without adding any
modules -- as long as the Wiki pages on your site get their own content-type
- which you can do even without CCK (as long as you don't add any fields).
Starting with D5 you can use the Book module for nodes that have content types other than book. This is awesome. You do have to create one node for each book that was created using the book content-type. But then any node can be assigned to it via an "outline" tab which appears. However, this relates to the navigation/page organization you want to provide for folks -- and there are other solutions to using the Book module.
I do find there is a lot of confusion out there about what a Wiki is. I know a lot of teachers use Wikispaces.com simply as a place to build web pages, for themselves and for their students, with no intention of collaborative writing, manual creation, multiple editors for the same page, etc. My feeling is those pages aren't Wikis.
Shai
On 3/7/08, Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com wrote:
We're beginning to describe a Drupal project that we feel is "wiki-ish" and I am thoroughly confused as to what would be needed to implement a "wiki" using drupal. It looks like wikitools provides some filters to translate between wiki markup and regular html, but for our purposes, that is the piece we care about least. (We intend to use tinyMCE or equivalent for markup--the users of this project will not be any happier with wiki markup than with html.)
So, what makes a page a wiki? We are thinking of a few primary elements:
- The ability of any registered user to edit the page in a browser.
(Note: Any registered Drupal user with appropriate permissions can do this with any Drupal page, as well.)
- The ability to view the page's history and to roll back changes
easily. (This may also be built into Drupal?)
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
Are we really just talking about a standard Drupal book? When other people say 'wiki,' to what more are they referring (or is the "what more" wiki markup language?)
ari
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
Ari,
Thanks for the link and the nice list of modules. I didn't know about all of them.
That hyperlink in your post isn't working. Did you copy it wrong or is it just down for the moment.
I can't find the node lock module that you reference. Can you point it to me?
Regarding "Talk" -- from a UI perspective I think it is one of the worst things about mediawiki. I think that Drupal's stock comments implementation on the same page as the node is much better than having a talk page on a separate page.
I saw you walking by once at DrupalCon but couldn't grab you cause I was going in another direction. So many people at DrupalCon!
Best,
Shai
On 3/7/08, Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com wrote:
Good points. Roetzi's sample drupal page (http://test.tschannen.net/ ) makes a point of including diff and recent changes, I presume for exactly the reason you describe, as well as node lock (two or more people simultaneously editing?), talk (for the metadiscussion), along with pearwiki filter and wikitools.
ari
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Shai Gluskin shai@content2zero.com wrote:
Ari and folks,
To me the core functionalities of a Wiki are:
- Versioning - each change is preserved
- Diff - users can compare versions
- Multiple user edit privileges to the same text (e.g. "node" in Drupal
speak).
So lets apply that to Drupal.
- Versioning is built in. Just make sure on the content-type edit page
under workflow that revisions is turned on.
Diff - you need a module for that. Fortunately the diff modulehttp://drupal.org/project/diffis excellent and well developed/maintained.
The editing privileges you should be able to handle without adding
any modules -- as long as the Wiki pages on your site get their own content-type - which you can do even without CCK (as long as you don't add any fields).
Starting with D5 you can use the Book module for nodes that have content types other than book. This is awesome. You do have to create one node for each book that was created using the book content-type. But then any node can be assigned to it via an "outline" tab which appears. However, this relates to the navigation/page organization you want to provide for folks -- and there are other solutions to using the Book module.
I do find there is a lot of confusion out there about what a Wiki is. I know a lot of teachers use Wikispaces.com simply as a place to build web pages, for themselves and for their students, with no intention of collaborative writing, manual creation, multiple editors for the same page, etc. My feeling is those pages aren't Wikis.
Shai
On 3/7/08, Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com wrote:
We're beginning to describe a Drupal project that we feel is "wiki-ish" and I am thoroughly confused as to what would be needed to implement a "wiki" using drupal. It looks like wikitools provides some filters to translate between wiki markup and regular html, but for our purposes, that is the piece we care about least. (We intend to use tinyMCE or equivalent for markup--the users of this project will not be any happier with wiki markup than with html.)
So, what makes a page a wiki? We are thinking of a few primary elements:
- The ability of any registered user to edit the page in a browser.
(Note: Any registered Drupal user with appropriate permissions can do this with any Drupal page, as well.)
- The ability to view the page's history and to roll back changes
easily. (This may also be built into Drupal?)
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
Are we really just talking about a standard Drupal book? When other people say 'wiki,' to what more are they referring (or is the "what more" wiki markup language?)
ari
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
http://test.tschannen.net/ not working? I just tried it out and it seems to work fine. The node lock module may be roetzi's own--see the address on his test page: http://cvs.drupal.org/viewvc.py/drupal/contributions/sandbox/roetzi/node_loc...
ari
On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Shai Gluskin shai@content2zero.com wrote:
Ari,
Thanks for the link and the nice list of modules. I didn't know about all of them.
That hyperlink in your post isn't working. Did you copy it wrong or is it just down for the moment.
I can't find the node lock module that you reference. Can you point it to me?
Regarding "Talk" -- from a UI perspective I think it is one of the worst things about mediawiki. I think that Drupal's stock comments implementation on the same page as the node is much better than having a talk page on a separate page.
I saw you walking by once at DrupalCon but couldn't grab you cause I was going in another direction. So many people at DrupalCon!
Best,
Shai
On 3/7/08, Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com wrote:
Good points. Roetzi's sample drupal page (http://test.tschannen.net/ ) makes a point of including diff and recent changes, I presume for exactly the reason you describe, as well as node lock (two or more people simultaneously editing?), talk (for the metadiscussion), along with pearwiki filter and wikitools.
ari
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Shai Gluskin shai@content2zero.com wrote:
Ari and folks,
To me the core functionalities of a Wiki are:
- Versioning - each change is preserved
- Diff - users can compare versions
- Multiple user edit privileges to the same text (e.g. "node" in
Drupal speak).
So lets apply that to Drupal.
- Versioning is built in. Just make sure on the content-type edit
page under workflow that revisions is turned on.
Diff - you need a module for that. Fortunately the diff modulehttp://drupal.org/project/diffis excellent and well developed/maintained.
The editing privileges you should be able to handle without adding
any modules -- as long as the Wiki pages on your site get their own content-type - which you can do even without CCK (as long as you don't add any fields).
Starting with D5 you can use the Book module for nodes that have content types other than book. This is awesome. You do have to create one node for each book that was created using the book content-type. But then any node can be assigned to it via an "outline" tab which appears. However, this relates to the navigation/page organization you want to provide for folks -- and there are other solutions to using the Book module.
I do find there is a lot of confusion out there about what a Wiki is. I know a lot of teachers use Wikispaces.com simply as a place to build web pages, for themselves and for their students, with no intention of collaborative writing, manual creation, multiple editors for the same page, etc. My feeling is those pages aren't Wikis.
Shai
On 3/7/08, Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com wrote:
We're beginning to describe a Drupal project that we feel is "wiki-ish" and I am thoroughly confused as to what would be needed to implement a "wiki" using drupal. It looks like wikitools provides some filters to translate between wiki markup and regular html, but for our purposes, that is the piece we care about least. (We intend to use tinyMCE or equivalent for markup--the users of this project will not be any happier with wiki markup than with html.)
So, what makes a page a wiki? We are thinking of a few primary elements:
- The ability of any registered user to edit the page in a browser.
(Note: Any registered Drupal user with appropriate permissions can do this with any Drupal page, as well.)
- The ability to view the page's history and to roll back changes
easily. (This may also be built into Drupal?)
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
Are we really just talking about a standard Drupal book? When other people say 'wiki,' to what more are they referring (or is the "what more" wiki markup language?)
ari
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
On Mar 7, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Ari Davidow wrote:
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
I'm sure this could be done with a custom 404 page and the prepopulate module. The custom 404 page would say something like "Sorry, this page doesn't exist yet, would you like to create it?" and the words "create it" can link to a node submission page with the title prepopulated thanks to the prepopulate module (which, until now, was probably only used for people to have a "blog this" javascript bookmarklet.
Actually the feelinking filter module provides this functionality.
[[New document title]] will redirect you to the create page for that title.
Dave
-----Original Message----- From: support-bounces@drupal.org [mailto:support-bounces@drupal.org] On Behalf Of Brian Puccio Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:35 AM To: support@drupal.org Subject: Re: [support] current wiki tools in drupal
On Mar 7, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Ari Davidow wrote:
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
I'm sure this could be done with a custom 404 page and the prepopulate module. The custom 404 page would say something like "Sorry, this page doesn't exist yet, would you like to create it?" and the words "create it" can link to a node submission page with the title prepopulated thanks to the prepopulate module (which, until now, was probably only used for people to have a "blog this" javascript bookmarklet.
Quoting Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com:
We're beginning to describe a Drupal project that we feel is "wiki-ish" and I am thoroughly confused as to what would be needed to implement a "wiki" using drupal. It looks like wikitools provides some filters to translate between wiki markup and regular html, but for our purposes, that is the piece we care about least. (We intend to use tinyMCE or equivalent for markup--the users of this project will not be any happier with wiki markup than with html.)
So, what makes a page a wiki? We are thinking of a few primary elements:
- The ability of any registered user to edit the page in a browser. (Note:
Any registered Drupal user with appropriate permissions can do this with any Drupal page, as well.)
- The ability to view the page's history and to roll back changes easily.
(This may also be built into Drupal?)
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
Are we really just talking about a standard Drupal book? When other people say 'wiki,' to what more are they referring (or is the "what more" wiki markup language?)
Surely you know how to Google[1]. If you had you would have found a recipe[2] at the top of the list.
[1] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wiki+howto+site%3Adrupal.org [2] http://drupal.org/node/203502
Earnie -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
Earnie and others following this thread:
Earnie, your example actually shows the limits of simply Googling. In fact, the liquid wiki project http://drupal.org/project/liquid seems abandonedhttp://drupal.org/node/148904for the moment, which is the one that is mentioned in the Wiki recipe which Google displayed on top.
There is a pretty detailed thread at groupshttp://groups.drupal.org/node/7072which points to more activity being done on the wikitools http://drupal.org/project/wikitools module. Indeed it seems there was a flurry of work on Wikitools in April and there is a D6 version for it.
I have found this thread most helpful and informative and dislike the suggestion that simply Googling could have replaced the helpful discussion here.
My own concern is that functionality that would handle issues around simultaneous editing do yet seem to be provided. If people know otherwise, please post.
Shai
On 3/10/08, Earnie Boyd earnie@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
Quoting Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com:
We're beginning to describe a Drupal project that we feel is "wiki-ish"
and
I am thoroughly confused as to what would be needed to implement a
"wiki"
using drupal. It looks like wikitools provides some filters to translate between wiki markup and regular html, but for our purposes, that is the piece we care about least. (We intend to use tinyMCE or equivalent for markup--the users of this project will not be any happier with wiki
markup
than with html.)
So, what makes a page a wiki? We are thinking of a few primary elements:
- The ability of any registered user to edit the page in a browser.
(Note:
Any registered Drupal user with appropriate permissions can do this with
any
Drupal page, as well.)
- The ability to view the page's history and to roll back changes
easily.
(This may also be built into Drupal?)
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
Are we really just talking about a standard Drupal book? When other
people
say 'wiki,' to what more are they referring (or is the "what more" wiki markup language?)
Surely you know how to Google[1]. If you had you would have found a recipe[2] at the top of the list.
[1] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wiki+howto+site%3Adrupal.org [2] http://drupal.org/node/203502
Earnie -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
--
[ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
Quoting Shai Gluskin shai@content2zero.com:
Earnie and others following this thread:
Earnie, your example actually shows the limits of simply Googling. In fact, the liquid wiki project http://drupal.org/project/liquid seems abandonedhttp://drupal.org/node/148904for the moment, which is the one that is mentioned in the Wiki recipe which Google displayed on top.
That doesn't mean that the ideas can't be used and the project taken over. If there is interest in a module that isn't being maintained then there are methods to take over maintenance. Searching google again for ``take over maintenance'' gives a fairly good example of how to go about this.
There is a pretty detailed thread at groupshttp://groups.drupal.org/node/7072which points to more activity being done on the wikitools http://drupal.org/project/wikitools module. Indeed it seems there was a flurry of work on Wikitools in April and there is a D6 version for it.
Limiting to site:drupal.org pulls the groups.drupal.org and lists.drupal.org data as well. I limit to drupal.org because that limits trash hits that look promising but really aren't. Wikitools is another good module.
I have found this thread most helpful and informative and dislike the suggestion that simply Googling could have replaced the helpful discussion here.
Like answer I received asking the same question. Yes, there are a lot of things that we can research before communicating a question and I agree that discussion is helpful after the research has been done.
My own concern is that functionality that would handle issues around simultaneous editing do yet seem to be provided. If people know otherwise, please post.
This point alone is worth discussion. Not just for the wiki instance but anytime there is more than one person that can edit a node. And yet, a google proves that even this is discussed already; see [1] and [2].
[1] http://lists.drupal.org/archives/development/2004-09/msg00720.html [2] http://groups.drupal.org/node/9551
Earnie -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
Earnie,
Wow, thanks for the link to the checkout module. That was really helpful. I think that is just what I need.
Earnie, maybe you are just better at Google than a lot of people. I know I'm better at Google than a lot people, but worse than others. Google (and other search engines) may look simple to use but in fact there are huge variations in skill levels to find information from search engines. There are a host of reading, page scanning, word finding, synonym generation skills that the best users of search engines all have. FYI I did at least two different rounds of Google searching on node locking and other key words recently and neither time did they lead me to the checkout module.
Earnie, I'd much rather celebrate your wonderful abilities to find relevant information than feel that I have to duck from your scolding.
Best,
Shai
On 3/10/08, Earnie Boyd earnie@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
Quoting Shai Gluskin shai@content2zero.com:
Earnie and others following this thread:
Earnie, your example actually shows the limits of simply Googling. In
fact,
the liquid wiki project http://drupal.org/project/liquid seems abandonedhttp://drupal.org/node/148904for the moment, which is the one that is mentioned in the Wiki recipe which Google displayed on top.
That doesn't mean that the ideas can't be used and the project taken over. If there is interest in a module that isn't being maintained then there are methods to take over maintenance. Searching google again for ``take over maintenance'' gives a fairly good example of how to go about this.
There is a pretty detailed thread at groupshttp://groups.drupal.org/node/7072which points to more activity being done on the wikitools http://drupal.org/project/wikitools module. Indeed it seems there was a flurry of work on Wikitools in April and there is a D6
version
for it.
Limiting to site:drupal.org pulls the groups.drupal.org and lists.drupal.org data as well. I limit to drupal.org because that limits trash hits that look promising but really aren't. Wikitools is another good module.
I have found this thread most helpful and informative and dislike the suggestion that simply Googling could have replaced the helpful
discussion
here.
Like answer I received asking the same question. Yes, there are a lot of things that we can research before communicating a question and I agree that discussion is helpful after the research has been done.
My own concern is that functionality that would handle issues around simultaneous editing do yet seem to be provided. If people know
otherwise,
please post.
This point alone is worth discussion. Not just for the wiki instance but anytime there is more than one person that can edit a node. And yet, a google proves that even this is discussed already; see [1] and [2].
[1] http://lists.drupal.org/archives/development/2004-09/msg00720.html [2] http://groups.drupal.org/node/9551
Earnie -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
Quoting Shai Gluskin shai@content2zero.com:
Earnie,
Wow, thanks for the link to the checkout module. That was really helpful. I think that is just what I need.
Yes, it seemed to fit the bill and even includes a time limit on the check-out. That beats MS' Enterprise Document Management; if someone forgets then you're SOL if they aren't available to ping against.
Earnie, maybe you are just better at Google than a lot of people. I know I'm better at Google than a lot people, but worse than others. Google (and other search engines) may look simple to use but in fact there are huge variations in skill levels to find information from search engines. There are a host of reading, page scanning, word finding, synonym generation skills that the best users of search engines all have. FYI I did at least two different rounds of Google searching on node locking and other key words recently and neither time did they lead me to the checkout module.
I really only typed three relevant words in the search bar. Sometimes we just get lucky I guess.
Earnie, I'd much rather celebrate your wonderful abilities to find relevant information than feel that I have to duck from your scolding.
I hope the ``scolding'' was tame enough to be friendly. I don't mean to offend anyone. I too have had to take list ``scolding'' before so I've learned to look first and ask second. At least this is the support list. ;t
Earnie -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
Dit is een module / checkout - dat files locked
2008/3/10, Shai Gluskin shai@content2zero.com:
Earnie,
Wow, thanks for the link to the checkout module. That was really helpful. I think that is just what I need.
Earnie, maybe you are just better at Google than a lot of people. I know I'm better at Google than a lot people, but worse than others. Google (and other search engines) may look simple to use but in fact there are huge variations in skill levels to find information from search engines. There are a host of reading, page scanning, word finding, synonym generation skills that the best users of search engines all have. FYI I did at least two different rounds of Google searching on node locking and other key words recently and neither time did they lead me to the checkout module.
Earnie, I'd much rather celebrate your wonderful abilities to find relevant information than feel that I have to duck from your scolding.
Best,
Shai
On 3/10/08, Earnie Boyd earnie@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
Quoting Shai Gluskin shai@content2zero.com:
Earnie and others following this thread:
Earnie, your example actually shows the limits of simply Googling. In
fact,
the liquid wiki project http://drupal.org/project/liquid seems abandonedhttp://drupal.org/node/148904for the moment, which is the one that is mentioned in the Wiki recipe which Google displayed on top.
That doesn't mean that the ideas can't be used and the project taken over. If there is interest in a module that isn't being maintained then there are methods to take over maintenance. Searching google again for ``take over maintenance'' gives a fairly good example of how to go about this.
There is a pretty detailed thread at groupshttp://groups.drupal.org/node/7072which points to more activity being done on the wikitools http://drupal.org/project/wikitools module. Indeed it
seems
there was a flurry of work on Wikitools in April and there is a D6
version
for it.
Limiting to site:drupal.org pulls the groups.drupal.org and lists.drupal.org data as well. I limit to drupal.org because that limits trash hits that look promising but really aren't. Wikitools is another good module.
I have found this thread most helpful and informative and dislike the suggestion that simply Googling could have replaced the helpful
discussion
here.
Like answer I received asking the same question. Yes, there are a lot of things that we can research before communicating a question and I agree that discussion is helpful after the research has been done.
My own concern is that functionality that would handle issues around simultaneous editing do yet seem to be provided. If people know
otherwise,
please post.
This point alone is worth discussion. Not just for the wiki instance but anytime there is more than one person that can edit a node. And yet, a google proves that even this is discussed already; see [1] and [2].
[1] http://lists.drupal.org/archives/development/2004-09/msg00720.html [2] http://groups.drupal.org/node/9551
Earnie -- http://for-my-kids.com/ -- http://give-me-an-offer.com/
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
-- [ Drupal support list | http://lists.drupal.org/ ]
Surely you know how to Google[1]. If you had you would have found a
recipe[2] at the top of the list.
[1] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wiki+howto+site%3Adrupal.org [2] http://drupal.org/node/203502
I not only know how to Google, but read those items before posting. And then went and looked at the modules, themselves and the demo site (which is referenced in this discussion).
As Shai notes, Googling (and using the drupal.org search, which is where I started) missed some key elements, which is why, once I had looked at those pieces, I thought it a good idea to see whether people had more to add.
One of the things that came up in the discussion and through my research is a reinforcement of the Drupal principle that sites are composites, comprised of many interlocking modules. So, I'm not looking for a "wiki" module, I am, instead, refining the functionality that I am specifically looking for, and then looking at what pieces reinforce that best.
There were enough good points that came up in the discussion that I am pleased that I posted to the list. (The interface discussion is its own interesting subject--everyone has the right to their own opinion--and everyone has one with regard to interface. My own 20 years in the field have also highlighted how different the way people really use tools is from how techies think that people use tools. That, of course, would be another discussion.)
ari
Earnie Boyd wrote:
Quoting Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com:
We're beginning to describe a Drupal project that we feel is "wiki-ish" and I am thoroughly confused as to what would be needed to implement a "wiki" using drupal. It looks like wikitools provides some filters to translate between wiki markup and regular html, but for our purposes, that is the piece we care about least. (We intend to use tinyMCE or equivalent for markup--the users of this project will not be any happier with wiki markup than with html.)
So, what makes a page a wiki? We are thinking of a few primary elements:
- The ability of any registered user to edit the page in a browser. (Note:
Any registered Drupal user with appropriate permissions can do this with any Drupal page, as well.)
CCK node type, enable revisions.
- The ability to view the page's history and to roll back changes easily.
(This may also be built into Drupal?)
Install the Diff module, and allow users to revert revisions.
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
Freelinking handles this nicely, and in conjunction with wikitools adds some nice admin features. There are also other input formats that, depending on your specific needs, might be better suited. One thing I like about freelinking is that you can use it in conjunction with TinyMCE by putting the freelinking filter below the filtered html filter in the input formats.
Are we really just talking about a standard Drupal book? When other people say 'wiki,' to what more are they referring (or is the "what more" wiki markup language?)
A BIG question -- in my experience, when people say "wiki" they really mean "a page that any user can edit" -- however, opinions probably differ widely here.
Surely you know how to Google[1]. If you had you would have found a recipe[2] at the top of the list.
[1] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wiki+howto+site%3Adrupal.org [2] http://drupal.org/node/203502
Earnie -- this really isn't all that helpful, in both tone and information. I would suggest something along these lines, as it conveys the same message in a nicer way:
"A quick look through google ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wiki+howto+site%3Adrupal.org ) reveals a lot of info. However, Google doesn't always give the best information: this recipe ( http://drupal.org/node/203502 ) actually points to the liquid module, a very promising solution that has seen slower development over the last six months, and hasn't seen a cvs commit since June of 2007. The wikitools module has received some focused attention recently, and has a new co-maintainer who is actively involved in clearing out the issue queue. Another resource for wiki functionality in Drupal is the wiki groups on g.d.o, at http://groups.drupal.org/wiki"
Google is a great tool, but it returns the results that *it* thinks are most relevant. As the community continues to grow and expand, the support list needs to be a place where people can ask questions freely. Tone matters, and accuracy matters; in short, we need to be welcoming, and kind.
Cheers,
Bill
I another aspect of a wiki is multiple attribution for the article and the edits. Is there any meaningful way to show all the author(s) of an article? The node author is in rather high prominence compared to edit authors in the Drupal way of doing things.
Yes I know I could make a custom PHP block and query the DB and all that, but was wondering if there was a more integrated way of doing this.
Thanks. Greg
-----Original Message----- From: support-bounces@drupal.org [mailto:support-bounces@drupal.org] On Behalf Of Bill Fitzgerald Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 9:07 AM To: support@drupal.org Subject: Re: [support] current wiki tools in drupal
Earnie Boyd wrote:
Quoting Ari Davidow aridavidow@gmail.com:
We're beginning to describe a Drupal project that we feel is
"wiki-ish" and
I am thoroughly confused as to what would be needed to implement a
"wiki"
using drupal. It looks like wikitools provides some filters to
translate
between wiki markup and regular html, but for our purposes, that is
the
piece we care about least. (We intend to use tinyMCE or equivalent
for
markup--the users of this project will not be any happier with wiki
markup
than with html.)
So, what makes a page a wiki? We are thinking of a few primary
elements:
- The ability of any registered user to edit the page in a browser.
(Note:
Any registered Drupal user with appropriate permissions can do this
with any
Drupal page, as well.)
CCK node type, enable revisions.
- The ability to view the page's history and to roll back changes
easily.
(This may also be built into Drupal?)
Install the Diff module, and allow users to revert revisions.
- The ability to create a new, blank page by creating a link to it.
Freelinking handles this nicely, and in conjunction with wikitools adds some nice admin features. There are also other input formats that, depending on your specific needs, might be better suited. One thing I like about freelinking is that you can use it in conjunction with TinyMCE by putting the freelinking filter below the filtered html filter
in the input formats.
Are we really just talking about a standard Drupal book? When other
people
say 'wiki,' to what more are they referring (or is the "what more"
wiki
markup language?)
A BIG question -- in my experience, when people say "wiki" they really mean "a page that any user can edit" -- however, opinions probably differ widely here.
Surely you know how to Google[1]. If you had you would have found a recipe[2] at the top of the list.
[1] http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wiki+howto+site%3Adrupal.org [2] http://drupal.org/node/203502
Earnie -- this really isn't all that helpful, in both tone and information. I would suggest something along these lines, as it conveys the same message in a nicer way:
"A quick look through google ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wiki+howto+site%3Adrupal.org ) reveals a lot of info. However, Google doesn't always give the best information: this recipe ( http://drupal.org/node/203502 ) actually points to the liquid module, a very promising solution that has seen slower development over the last six months, and hasn't seen a cvs commit since June of 2007. The wikitools module has received some focused attention recently, and has a new co-maintainer who is actively involved in clearing out the issue queue. Another resource for wiki functionality in Drupal is the wiki groups on g.d.o, at http://groups.drupal.org/wiki"
Google is a great tool, but it returns the results that *it* thinks are most relevant. As the community continues to grow and expand, the support list needs to be a place where people can ask questions freely. Tone matters, and accuracy matters; in short, we need to be welcoming, and kind.
Cheers,
Bill
This would be an awesome add-on module -- query the node_revisions table, and generate a list of users who have edited the node, with links to their revisions.
Expose this to Views, and we'd be off and running...
As of this writing, I don't think this exists. It's some sweet vaporware, though :)
Cheers,
Bill
Greg Holsclaw wrote:
I another aspect of a wiki is multiple attribution for the article and the edits. Is there any meaningful way to show all the author(s) of an article? The node author is in rather high prominence compared to edit authors in the Drupal way of doing things.
Yes I know I could make a custom PHP block and query the DB and all that, but was wondering if there was a more integrated way of doing this.
Thanks. Greg
-
Ari Davidow -
Bill Fitzgerald -
Brian Puccio -
Earnie Boyd -
Greg Holsclaw -
Metzler, David -
Shai Gluskin -
Willy Smets