July 2009 - Development - lists.drupal.org

Convince Client to Release Code
by Fred Jones 13 Jul '09

13 Jul '09

We have one client for whom we wrote a set of custom modules. I asked the client if we could put the modules on d.o and he balked. I tried to explain that he'll get good testing and also bug fixes and new features maybe, if others post patches etc. He feels that he (his organization that is) paid for the work and why should someone else now benefit? He also has this idea that other organizations like his will want a site like his and he has plans to provide a hosted service for them (while this idea may seem far-fetched, I do think he has some connections which might make this idea feasible). So he thinks if we release the code, then they will just grab the code and use it. I tried to explain that your average layman has no idea what Drupal is, no way to figure out your site is running Drupal, and if even he got that far, he has no way of building his site without a professional to put the pieces together (after they figure what those pieces are of course), and then they he would do just as well to use our hosted plan! But he hasn't accepted this. Are there any good arguments we can use to persuade him? I feel he has nothing to lose in releasing the code, but we have to convince him of that. Thanks.

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Menu router question
by Richard Morse 13 Jul '09

13 Jul '09

Hi! I'm trying to extend the taxonomy interface so that I can attach additional information to certain terms. I'd like to do one of two things: - either make admin/content/taxonomy/edit/term be a MENU_DEFAULT_TASK, and add additional tabs such as admin/content/taxonomy/edit/term/%/info1 or - (as I can easily add a link to the form) determine how to make the menu system display the proper breadcrumb for a sub page. I'm almost there (maybe) -- that is, if I have a menu item like: $items['admin/content/taxonomy/edit/term/%/info1'] = array( 'title' => 'my title', 'access arguments' => array('permission'), 'page callback' => 'drupal_get_form', 'page arguments' => array('my_func', 5), 'type' => MENU_LOCAL_TASTK, 'tab_parent' => 'admin/content/taxonomy/edit/term/%', ); it will properly create the breadcrumb list, except that the "Edit term" link doesn't include the term id at the end, which breaks things. Is there a way to accomplish either of these? Thanks, Ricky The information in this e-mail is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you believe this e-mail was sent to you in error and the e-mail contains patient information, please contact the Partners Compliance HelpLine at http://www.partners.org/complianceline . If the e-mail was sent to you in error but does not contain patient information, please contact the sender and properly dispose of the e-mail.

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Re: [development] Convince Client to Release Code
by Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg 13 Jul '09

13 Jul '09

I definitely think these types of discussions are best had before work begins, and should be part of the contract between you and your client. Here's the wording from our standard contract: ------------- Proprietary Rights. The Drupal software programs (comprised of core software as well as additional community-contributed modules and theme software) (herein referred to as “Drupal”) used by Consultant are licensed under a GNU General Public License, and all developed code and techniques derived from Drupal shall be licensed in accordance with the applicable GNU General Public License. Further, developed code and techniques derived from Drupal shall be contributed to the Drupal community for public use unless specifically agreed upon in writing by both parties prior to development or it is agreed that such code would not provide benefit to the community. Developed code, when contributed back to the Drupal community, can be attributed to both Consultant and Company as appropriate. Developed code and techniques not derived from or natively integrated with Drupal shall not be contributed to an open source community without express consent from Company. ------------- This almost invariably makes the contract negotiations take longer, but in the end they are sold on the ideas that it is 'the right/profressional way' to work in Open Source, and we won't sacrifice working in the 'right way', as well as the long term maintenance costs of maintaining your own code. -- Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg ZivTech, LLC http://zivtech.com alex(a)zivtech.com office: (267) 940-7737 cell: (215) 866-8956 skype: zivtech aim: zivtech From: David Metzler <metzlerd(a)metzlerd.com> > To: development(a)drupal.org > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 06:42:29 -0700 > Subject: Re: [development] Convince Client to Release Code > Although the links provided touch on this. The most successful argument I > have used is that the client may be able to defer and/or share the maintence > costs of the module. The first time that they don't have to pay a developer > to upgrade the module to the next major rev of drupal (because someone else > has contributed the port), this can be a powerful argument. Of course as > others have already mentioned, it should be pointed out that they are taking > advantage of other consultants paid development by using drupal, and that it > is fairly common practice for code that is paid for by other organizations > to be released back into the drupal community. > > There are many success stories to be told, where an important feature to a > contributed module was developed (and therefor paid for) wholly by another > person. Depending on the complexity and reusability of the module, they may > FULLY recoup the cost of development in maintenance cost savings. I often > describe open source software as bartered software developement, where you > lose the overhead associated with contract management. ;) > > Given all that, continue to point all this out, every time you get an > opportunity. Sometimes it takes a while to sell, and the proprietary module > could be released into the community at any time. No rush. > > I'm still selling it at my shop, not cause the people don't get it, but > because its an easy thing to take for granted. It's the bills you pay that > get your attention, not the ones you manage to avoid. > > Good luck, and keep trying.... > > Dave > > On Jul 13, 2009, at 6:06 AM, Fred Jones wrote: > > Regarding the legal issues here, it's definitely interesting and I >> will now take care to make contacts, but as far as this job, we have >> no contract but anyway the owners of this group are friends of ours >> and there is no fight going on--we just suggested to release the code >> and they asked us not to. So now we have to convince them to agree. :) >> >> I think your job is to let him understand the advantages of having >>> such modules "supported by the community" and what does it mean >>> "replicating and maintaining your work". >>> >> >> So that's what I'm asking about here--I can tell him the advantages are: >> >> 1. Testing and Bug reports. >> 2. Potential patches being submitted that he won't have to pay for. >> >> That's what I know. What does "replicating and maintaining your work" >> refer to? >> >> Does the client have a site/service that would be of interest to the >>> general >>> public? If so then I would try to sell it from the angle that you can >>> release the module with a "supported by" attribution that links back to >>> them >>> from the D.O. project page. That could help give them more recognition >>> and >>> give their company a higher standing within the O.S. community. >>> >> >> No, their service is only for other organizations in their particular >> business. I don't think a link on d.o will interest them *at all.* I >> would like one, but I'm a nerd. lol. >> >> Does he realize that he's the beneficiary of millions of hours of work >>> paid for by others? >>> >> >> Of course he realizes that. Does he care, however? Seems like not. :( >> >> Well, it could be that he knows and appreciates BUT he still doesn't >> want to lose his own money over it. lol. >> >> See this related article: >>> >>> http://civicactions.com/blog/ >>> most_important_decision_developing_site_Contributed_vs_custom_development >>> >>> and the "Contribute back" section here: >>> >>> http://drupal.org/node/51169 >>> >> >> OK, great--this is the kind of thing I was looking for. Thanks. >> >> Fred >> >

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Re: [development] Convince Client to Release Code
by Andrew Berry 13 Jul '09

13 Jul '09

On 13-Jul-09, at 10:37 AM, Joop Sint Jago wrote: > Regardless of legal status. > How can one "grab" Drupal for free (with all related benefits) and > then > refuse to contribute back? http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html I'd suggest reading up about the AGPL license as well as it will help to answer your question: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/agpl-3.0.html --Andrew

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Re: [development] Convince Client to Release Code
by Cameron Eagans 13 Jul '09

13 Jul '09

While I am a proponent of contributing back to the community, there are certain situations where it would not be prudent to do so (from a business owner's prospective). For example, what if you developed an application like TSheets.com or FreshBooks.com in Drupal? I'm pretty sure that you would not want any of your custom code floating around on the internet -- ever. It's not a matter of morals sometimes -- it's a matter of livelyhood. If your community contributions can directly help or create competitors, it doesn't make much sense to contribute your modules/themes/etc. Likewise, if you developed some application that ran on Linux, would you want to open-source your app? There are tons of closed-source applications for Linux, and not much debate over their legality or morals. I liken that situation to this one. Just my $0.02. ----- Cameron Eagans Owner, Black Storms Studios, LLC http://www.blackstormsstudios.com/cweagans On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Joop Sint Jago <j.sintjago(a)xs4all.nl>wrote: > Regardless of legal status. > How can one "grab" Drupal for free (with all related benefits) and then > refuse to contribute back? > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: development-bounces(a)drupal.org [mailto:development-bounces@drupal.org > ] > Namens Fred Jones > Verzonden: maandag 13 juli 2009 2:53 > Aan: development(a)drupal.org > Onderwerp: [development] Convince Client to Release Code > > We have one client for whom we wrote a set of custom modules. I asked > the client if we could put the modules on d.o and he balked. I tried > to explain that he'll get good testing and also bug fixes and new > features maybe, if others post patches etc. > > He feels that he (his organization that is) paid for the work and why > should someone else now benefit? He also has this idea that other > organizations like his will want a site like his and he has plans to > provide a hosted service for them (while this idea may seem > far-fetched, I do think he has some connections which might make this > idea feasible). > > So he thinks if we release the code, then they will just grab the code > and use it. I tried to explain that your average layman has no idea > what Drupal is, no way to figure out your site is running Drupal, and > if even he got that far, he has no way of building his site without a > professional to put the pieces together (after they figure what those > pieces are of course), and then they he would do just as well to use > our hosted plan! > > But he hasn't accepted this. Are there any good arguments we can use > to persuade him? I feel he has nothing to lose in releasing the code, > but we have to convince him of that. > > Thanks. > >

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Re: [development] Convince Client to Release Code (Fred Jones)
by As If Productions 13 Jul '09

13 Jul '09

Hey Fred -- Another advantage of releasing the code, you can include a link to the client's site somewhere in your description ("as seen here" or "check out a demo") - which will then give him an inbound link from drupal.org. That's good SEO mojo. LVX TF --- As If Productions http://www.asifproductions.com Interactive Worlds and Immersive Obsessions

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MS SQL question - Thanks!
by bob brazeau 08 Jul '09

08 Jul '09

Good info, and I'll let the higher ups know that connecting to our other databases won't be an issue at all. Larry Garfield's page was great, I read through it and will have to go back and look over the code he linked to. Bob

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MS SQL question
by bobbrazeau＠gmail.com 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Hey guys, I realize this is a hot button issue and am not trying to ruffle any feathers. We are looking to switch out website from a lamp stack to a CMS and Drupal is the one I am championing. The site itself would be running on a mysql cluster. One of the issues of our environment is some data sits on a MS SQL server. Currently we have it setup to connect via odbc and everything is fine. While we wouldn't need Drupal to use MS SQL as a backend server, there is data some we'd need to grab for some of the pages. D6 doesn't support MSSQL though the abstraction layer, but would it be possible to code the modules to connect to the server on their own and use php code to process the db data? And what is the ick factor on that? NOT for MSSQL but the approach - or if there is a better way please inform me. Thanks! Bob

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Node appear in database but not in admin/content/node
by Lluís 07 Jul '09

07 Jul '09

Using D6 I have created a custom node type and a custom node access permissions. All was working fine but now I cannot access some nodes despite they appear in: {node} {node_revisions} {node_access} {node_customtable} I have tried using user->uid=1 but I am out of luck; I have created a multisite, one for beta testers, and one for developing, and they also share some tables with another site. The shared tables are: $db_prefix = array( 'default' => 'cc2_', //betatesters 'users' => 'meg_', 'profile_fields' => 'meg_', 'profile_values' => 'meg_', 'alt_login' => 'meg_', ); if (substr($_SERVER['SCRIPT_NAME'], 0, 5) == '/cc3/' ) { // developing $db_prefix['cache'] = 'cc3_'; $db_prefix['cache_block'] = 'cc3_'; $db_prefix['cache_filter'] = 'cc3_'; $db_prefix['cache_form'] = 'cc3_'; $db_prefix['cache_menu'] = 'cc3_'; $db_prefix['cache_page'] = 'cc3_'; $db_prefix['cache_update'] = 'cc3_'; $db_prefix['cache_views'] = 'cc3_'; // $db_prefix['sessions'] = 'cc3_'; $db_prefix['views_object_cache'] = 'cc3_'; } I have no idea of where the problem is; -- *La vida és com una taronja, què esperes a exprimir-la? *Si creus que l'educació és cara, prova la ignorància. *La vida és com una moneda, la pots gastar en el que vulguis però només una vegada. *Abans d'imprimir aquest missatge, pensa en el medi ambient.

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When writing a loop...
by Karoly Negyesi 06 Jul '09

06 Jul '09

... please always consider: can this loop become impossibly long? If you are iterating over anything without set limits then the answer is likely yes. Typically, nodes, files, users, terms, comments, aggregator items, menu links are the things that some sites can easily have millions of. Roles and vocabularies are an example which are very unlikely to become unwieldy large. Thanks NK

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