October 2007 - Development - lists.drupal.org

Re: [development] code proposal: localization of currency, ...
by Hans Salvisberg 19 Oct '07

19 Oct '07

Ivan Sergio Borgonovo conveniently avoided considering the cheaper case: Let's try a concrete example. We have, let's say $0.02 Now, the user changes his language to French. Apparently, you're jumping to the conclusion that he must be a member of the "French people" -- that's wrong more that two thirds of the time, but if we leave that aside for the moment, what do you propose to do with those two cents now? Consider the same scenario in Canada -- what do you propose to do? There's also an Italian minority in the US, and I don't see why an Italian American shouldn't install the Italian UI translation as an option. So, how will you display those two cents? > > Now the user changes his language to a) French or b) Japanese > > (hint: Yen amounts have no fractional part). What do you propose to > > do? > > Use the float format for the Japanese audience to express Euros. Oh, so when the going gets tough, you're proposing NOT to use your currency wrapper? But -- either we use it or we don't. We cannot not use it when the user changes to Japanese while at the same time use it when he changes to French, can we? > Will you expect to see: > > [A] > The current debt of US is $ 1.234.567.890,33 > > and > > Il debito corrente degli US ? di $ 1.234.567.890,33 > > or you would expect something like: > > [B] > The current debt of US is $ 1,234,567,890.33 > > and > > Il debito corrente degli US ? di $ 1.234.567.890,33 > > I'd expect [B]. When you have a simple algorithm, then you can always construct a simple example for which the algorithm yields the correct result. That doesn't prove anything. If you want to contribute something useful then it needs to work in all but the most exotic cases. And, no, I disagree. It doesn't matter in what language this is published, but it depends on where it's published. If it's a US publication (whether in English or in Italian) then it should use US formatting, and if it's published in Italy (whether in English or in Italian), it should use Italian formatting. > I would consider confusing having content and interface in one > language and currency and number format expressed in a format that's > not proper of that language. I agree. But who says that content and interface needs to be in the same language. Drupal makes it easy to switch the interface. Supplying all of your content in multiple languages is much much harder. If you tie the currency and number format to the interface language, then you get exactly what you say you would consider confusing: users with different interface languages see the same content with different currency and number formats! Please take this in and try not to ignore it! > Is anyone using localisation without i18n module and then mixing > content in different languages just providing translation for > the interface? > Any case history of such kind of setup? I can't point you to a specific site, but if a site has a sizable minority that likes to use another language, then why not throw in a UI translation to make it easier for them to find their way on your site? > To me the localisation module alone can be used just for > mono-language websites. > > So there shouldn't be a mix of [...] Why not? Because it doesn't suit your view of the world? Italian websites and only Italian websites for Italians only? If you're serious about doing I18n/L10n then you definitely need to broaden your view! Supporting "a mix of ..." is what I18n/L10n is all about. Hans

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New contributor initiative: user patchnewbie
by Angie Byron 19 Oct '07

19 Oct '07

This was something I thought of doing a long time ago but forgot about it until just now. :P I just registered a new user 'patchnewbie', and am going through and assigning that user to any issues that are very simple and would make great first patches for someone new to core development. See: http://drupal.org/project/issues?projects=3060&assigned=patchnewbie If you find issues like this (typos, < 10 liners, etc.), please ping me on IRC (webchick) so I can get them added. I can also fork out patchnewbie's password to you if you're interested in specifically searching for easy issues as well. Let me know! And please purposely *don't* supply patches for these issues if you already know what you're doing -- let's save them for the core hackers of tomorrow! :) Thanks, -Angie

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Re: [development] code proposal: localization of currency, ...
by Hans Salvisberg 19 Oct '07

19 Oct '07

What I'm trying to say is that any attempt to select a currency format based on the language choice of the user is misguided. Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote: >> Forget about currency. Currency is completely unrelated to the >> user's language, and it certainly shouldn't change, just because a >> user changes their language. >> > > Well you can express amounts in dollars, euros, yuan with different > formats as you express floats. Sure you /can/ do anything, but you're doing a disservice to the community if you introduce a flawed feature that well-meaning people might start using! > French people may expect something like: > 1.234?56 > the - sign can take different places: > - $ 1.234,56 > $ -1.234,56 > etc... How do you tell the French... > an American may expect to read > ? 1,234,56 ... from the American? Let's try a concrete example. We have, let's say $0.02 Now, the user changes his language to French. Apparently, you're jumping to the conclusion that he must be a member of the "French people" -- that's wrong more that two thirds of the time, but if we leave that aside for the moment, what do you propose to do with those two cents now? Consider the same scenario in Canada -- what do you propose to do? Let's try another example: A Swiss website (default language: German) sells something in Swiss Francs and Euros, and a price tag might look like CHF 1'700.70 EUR 1.000,50 Now the user changes his language to a) French or b) Japanese (hint: Yen amounts have no fractional part). What do you propose to do? I've never actually seen a website that uses two different number formats -- so maybe try this instead: CHF 1 700.70 EUR 1 000.50 > In *many circumstances* people won't tolerate that numbers/currencies > don't get displayed in their local format. Quite the contrary is true. People are well aware that every website is located in some specific country, and they expect currency formats to follow the customs of that country, no matter what language they select. A website should never try to impersonate a foreign nationality, especially when it deals with monetary amounts. BTW, as to "won't tolerate" -- how many people (besides yourself) do you know who won't buy something, just because the website formats the price tag differently than their local grocery store? Hans P.S. Apparently, the message digest script munges your currency symbols and I'm only seeing question marks, so describing in words would help...

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Re: [development] help me with a script
by Chad Phillips -- Apartment Lines 18 Oct '07

18 Oct '07

On Oct 18, 2007, at 6:00 AM, chx wrote: > If someone would throw together a little script which downloads all > critical issues and their patches I could do a lot of work on it > during the weekend. dww and i have discussed functionality similar to this for project*. when implemented, it might go something like this: 1. visit a results page from a search in the issue queue (/project/ issues/user, for example) 2. click on a 'download results' link at the bottom of the page 3. project* goes through the issue list, pulls the issues and related patches, packages them up into a .tgz, and presents them for download. the structure of the resulting files is not totally clear, but most probably the easiest thing is simply a locally browsable mini-site, with the main page just a listing of the issues similar to the issue search page. 4. for extra bonus points, clicking on any of the 'reply' links in any of the local issues would open an e-mail template which could be used to post a reply via a mailhandler functionality. of course this is all total vaporware atm, and we have a very large checklist to get through before we can look at implementing it. however, i wouldn't be sad if somebody with some free time decided to file an issue w/ project* module and take this on now. :)

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help me with a script
by Karoly Negyesi 18 Oct '07

18 Oct '07

Hi, If someone would throw together a little script which downloads all critical issues and their patches I could do a lot of work on it during the weekend. Thanks, NK

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How to link to "user" in the main menu ?
by Xavier Bestel 18 Oct '07

18 Oct '07

Hi, as I've been unable to have an anwser in support(a)drupal.org, I'll ask again here: Under Drupal 5.2 when I create a menu item pointing to "user", it's not displayed. Why is that ? Thanks, Xav

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Drupal 6 beta 2 released
by Gábor Hojtsy 18 Oct '07

18 Oct '07

Hello World, As part of the coordinated security releases yesterday, Drupal 6.0 beta 2 was released with all the latest security and bug fixes. Unfortunately although some of us were hard at work with some of the "beta blocker" patches, not all made it in. We decided to do the second beta to keep the ball rolling, gather more feedback and provide a heads up to the community that we are focusing on fixing critical bugs. I hope people interested in pushing the Drupal 6.0 version forward can also keep an eye on the critical issue queue and help clean it up: http://drupal.org/project/issues?projects=3060&versions=97368,184399,175832… Note that there are issues which do not require much coding experience, just looking a bit more closer. Thanks to everyone involved, Gabor

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Re: [development] code proposal: localization of currency, ...
by Hans Salvisberg 18 Oct '07

18 Oct '07

Forget about currency. Currency is completely unrelated to the user's language, and it certainly shouldn't change, just because a user changes their language. A monetary amount is a number, possibly formatted in some special way, and a currency symbol/code placed somewhere. If a website wants to sell stuff in US$ they rarely want to get paid in any other currency -- well, they rarely support any language but English either... OTOH, if they sell stuff in Swiss Francs, they'll probably support at least German, French, and Italian (but Germany, France, and Italy have the Euro -- French Canada has the Canadian Dollar!). That Swiss site may support English as well, and they may also accept Euros, but the Euro amount won't be the same as the Swiss Franc amount, of course. And the UK does NOT use the Euro, but the Pound Sterling. Are there any English-speaking countries that do not use the Pound Sterling? This is much more complex than you think, and automating it would require a completely different approach. Essentially, a currency field would have to take the amount and the currency code (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217) probably from a configurable list (which might have only one item), and format the number accordingly, with or without a currency symbol or code, at the user's option. Hans Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote: > - write functions like: > > i18n_currency_format($number, $symbol='') { > $tmp=i18n_number_format(abs($number), > variable_get('currency_decimal',2) > ); > if($number<0) { $sign="-"; } > $tmp=str_replace('d',$tmp, > variable_get('currency_format','sd c'): > $tmp=str_replace('c',$simbol,$tmp); > $tmp=str_replace('s',$sign,$tmp); > return $tmp; > ); > } >

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Drupal 4.7.8, 5.3 released
by Heine Deelstra 18 Oct '07

18 Oct '07

Dear Drupal developers, We have just released Drupal 4.7.8 and 5.3. These are maintenance releases that fix problems reported using the bug tracking system and a number of security vulnerabilities. The release announcement can be found on http://drupal.org/drupal-5.3 The following security announcements were issued: http://drupal.org/node/184315 HTTP response splitting (4.7.x, 5.x) http://drupal.org/node/184316 Arbitrary code execution (5.x) http://drupal.org/node/184320 XSS via uploads (4.7.x, 5.x) http://drupal.org/node/184348 User deletion CSRF (5.x) http://drupal.org/node/184354 Comment status handling (4.7.x, 5.x) I want to thank the members of the security team and the branch maintainers for their hard work on these issues. Special thanks go to Jeff Eaton for a last minute review of the installer patch, Robert Douglass for release coordination, and die Zeit Online for sharing the results of a code audit with us. Gábor Hojtsy no doubt has something to say about 6 beta 2 later, but he also acted as the 4.7.8 branch maintainer substitute. Thanks. Regards, Heine Deelstra on behalf of the Drupal security team.

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Re: [development] Taking over a module
by andy＠spiders-lair.com 17 Oct '07

17 Oct '07

Jeff, Thanks for pointing out #22572, I just updated it for your reference :) regards, -- Andy (AjK) ----- Original Message ---- From: Jeff Beeman <doogieb(a)gmail.com> To: development(a)drupal.org Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 10:29:56 AM Subject: Re: [development] Taking over a module I knew I would find the answer immediately after sending the email :-p For anyone who is curious, it's under "Orphaned Projects" in the "Contributing to Development" Drupal handbook, at http://drupal.org/node/22572 // Jeff Beeman On 10/17/07, Jeff Beeman <doogieb(a)gmail.com> wrote: I would like to take over a module that's currently in contrib, in this case profile_pages. I've contacted the maintainer, PyromanFO, and he's happy to let me do so, but neither of us know what to do next. I did some searching, because I'm sure this process is documented somewhere, but I couldn't find anything. So, does anyone know how this is done? // Jeff Beeman

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