Hi again, - As Frederik says, we use "kmr" for Kurmanji and "ckb" for Sorani. We use these codes in GNOME and some other projects. - you are right, "ku" is not a country code. We can not ku_KU in any projects. SO we use ku_TR for some projects. Why projects need country code? Do countries support projects? No. It would be great to use only language codes for all projects.
As you see from Kurdish Google, iso639 2 makes problems for us. It would be better to use "kmr" and "ckb"
That is good Drupal will use iso639 3.
Amed
On Jan 19, 2008 2:00 PM, translations-request@drupal.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
- Re: language code problem (for kurdish) ( G?bor Hojtsy )
- Re: language code problem (for kurdish) (Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen)
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:52:15 +0100 From: " G?bor Hojtsy " gabor@hojtsy.hu Subject: Re: [translations] language code problem (for kurdish) To: "A list for translators" translations@drupal.org Message-ID: 86ca3ccb0801180552u381bdd54v557cf8fc2f722da1@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hey Amed,
On Jan 18, 2008 2:00 AM, Amed ?eko Jiyan amedcj@gmail.com wrote:
I would translate Drupal into Kurdish (Kurmanc?). I got cvs account and
i
created a project named Kurdish Kurmanc?. I would use ku_KU as language
code
for Kurmanc?, but i got that message "- We normally use iso639 2 letter language codes for Drupal, ie for Kurdish it is ku" all of otehr
projects
-like Mozilla Firefox, Google- would we use ku as language code. That is because they don't know any thing about Kurdish language(s). Kurdish is
a
languages family as Scandinavian. After i start to translate Drupal into Kurdish Kurmanc?, some other
friends
started to translate into Kurdish Soran?. We are translating Drupal into
two
languages but we have one language code (ku). will one of us stop to translating Drupal because that problem? No, i don't think so. I have allready created ku, ku_KU, so_KU in CVS directory. I would Drupal will let us to use ku_KU and so_Ku as languages codes.
*Maybe you would see that big mistake : http://www.google.com/intl/ku/ That is Kurdish page of Google. When you open that page, you will some
some
thing in latin letters (Kurmanc?) and some other things in arabic
letters
(Soran?). I hope Drupal will not fall in same mistake.
Well, Drupal 5 and before uses the ISO 639 language codes. With Drupal 6, we are migrating to the RFC 4646 codes, which supersede the ISO 639 codes as far as W3C directions go. (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4646.txt) It is important to choose interoperable language codes, because when browsers send what is their preferred language, Drupal can only choose the right one for display, if the browser and Drupal use the same format. So we try to follow standards.
I looked into the registry for information on how this is handled there: http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry. Looks like the IANA does not "know about" (to borrow your words) Kurmanc? or Soran? either. May it be that there are some other / alternate names for these variants, which are registered there?
It would be great to do this to the letter of the standards, so I'd ask you to collaborate and think this through first :)
Gabor
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:34:20 +0100 From: "Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen" freso.dk@gmail.com Subject: Re: [translations] language code problem (for kurdish) To: "A list for translators" translations@drupal.org Message-ID: 5ac9cdd10801181234o4aac30edtfe4c46665a0c0a73@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
2008/1/18, Amed ?eko Jiyan amedcj@gmail.com:
[...] That is because they don't know any thing about Kurdish language(s). Kurdish is a languages family as Scandinavian. After i start to translate Drupal into Kurdish Kurmanc?, some other
friends
started to translate into Kurdish Soran?. We are translating Drupal into
two
languages but we have one language code (ku). [...]
So there is no language "Kurdish"? According to Wikipedia, Kurdish is considered by some to be in three parts (Northern (Kurmanji), Central (Sorani), and Southern (Zaza-Gorani)), although this is also a topic of linguistic debate.[1] However, as I'm very much *for* spreading both languages and dialects, I'd say: Just use the ISO 639-3 codes! "kmr" for Kurmanji and "ckb" for Sorani.
(By the way, I only investigated this as I am Scandinavian meself (Danish, to be exact)... >_>)
[...] I have allready created ku, ku_KU, so_KU in CVS directory. I would Drupal will let us to use ku_KU and so_Ku as languages codes.
so_KU would mean "Somali, as spoken in KU" (apparently, there's no "ku" country code[2]). I'm pretty sure this is not your intention. :) Again, I'd say: Go with the ISO 639-3 codes I listed above.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language#Dialects [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-2 -- Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen http://freso.dk/
translations mailing list translations@drupal.org http://lists.drupal.org/mailman/listinfo/translations
End of translations Digest, Vol 27, Issue 12
2008/1/19, Amed Çeko Jiyan amedcj@gmail.com:
- As Frederik says, we use "kmr" for Kurmanji and "ckb" for Sorani. We use
these codes in GNOME and some other projects.
- you are right, "ku" is not a country code. We can not ku_KU in any
projects. SO we use ku_TR for some projects. Why projects need country code? Do countries support projects? No. It would be great to use only language codes for all projects.
Languages don't support projects either - people who speak/read/write them do. :p But country is good for stuff like Portuguese/Brazillian Portuguese and American/English/Irish/Australian/Canadian/South African/... English, where there's little argument that it's the same language and just varying dialects. (A language/locale code can also be written like en-GB-LONDON, if one wants to be that specific, though there are some more guidelines with regards to that. Check RFC 4646, which Gabor linked to, for more on this.)
A funny thing in relation to this is Norwegian, which has *3* ISO 639 2-letter codes: no, nb, and nn. The first (no) being generic Norwegian, which could mean either nb or nn, and the two latter (nb and nn) are, respectively, Bokmål and Nynorsk. But that's a completely different situation that you should research for yourself. One of those little amusing things in linguistics (IMHO). =)
As you see from Kurdish Google, iso639 2 makes problems for us. It would be better to use "kmr" and "ckb"
That is good Drupal will use iso639 3.
When I was inquiring about starting the Scots translation (which I still have to get out of the vapor ware state...), I'm pretty sure I was told it wouldn't be a problem to use "sco" (there isn't really any alternative code I could use), so I'm guessing that it shouldn't be a problem here either. But I am by no means an authority on Drupal's relations to ISO 639 codes, so, yeah. :)
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Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen schrieb:
2008/1/19, Amed Çeko Jiyan amedcj@gmail.com:
That is good Drupal will use iso639 3.
When I was inquiring about starting the Scots translation (which I still have to get out of the vapor ware state...), I'm pretty sure I was told it wouldn't be a problem to use "sco" (there isn't really any alternative code I could use), so I'm guessing that it shouldn't be a problem here either. But I am by no means an authority on Drupal's relations to ISO 639 codes, so, yeah. :)
I think it makes sense to use these codes. However, I'd like to hear from Goba if his locale work will support them (it IMHO should).
Cheers, Gerhard
On Jan 19, 2008 6:33 PM, Gerhard Killesreiter gerhard@killesreiter.de wrote:
When I was inquiring about starting the Scots translation (which I still have to get out of the vapor ware state...), I'm pretty sure I was told it wouldn't be a problem to use "sco" (there isn't really any alternative code I could use), so I'm guessing that it shouldn't be a problem here either. But I am by no means an authority on Drupal's relations to ISO 639 codes, so, yeah. :)
I think it makes sense to use these codes. However, I'd like to hear from Goba if his locale work will support them (it IMHO should).
The locale / language system works with whatever language codes. The reasons we are trying to stick to one language code is that
- when Google indexes your page, the language code you tell it (in the HTML output of most themes) will be used to index the content under that language - when a browser comes with language preferences, your site might provide it with the specific language version it prefers (depending on your configuration)... this only works if browsers and websites use the same language
So generally, we try to advocate interoperability. That's why we should look closer for options in the bounds of RCF464, which all parties on the web scene should obey to. If there does not happen to be any solution there, feel free to make exceptions, but be aware, that search engine friendliness of content in your language, browser language preferences, etc. will not work as expected.
I'd suggest looking at some browsers as well. Do they allow you to set these languages in their preferences. There was a short note on Firefox not supporting Kurdish languages properly in the thread starter mail, so that might not be a good solution to look there :)
Gabor
On Jan 19, 2008 1:34 PM, Amed Çeko Jiyan amedcj@gmail.com wrote:
- As Frederik says, we use "kmr" for Kurmanji and "ckb" for Sorani. We use
these codes in GNOME and some other projects.
- you are right, "ku" is not a country code. We can not ku_KU in any
projects. SO we use ku_TR for some projects. Why projects need country code? Do countries support projects? No. It would be great to use only language codes for all projects.
As you see from Kurdish Google, iso639 2 makes problems for us. It would be better to use "kmr" and "ckb"
That is good Drupal will use iso639 3.
No, Drupal will not use ISO 639-3 if otherwise possible, please read the other mails as well.
Gabor
-
Amed Çeko Jiyan -
Frederik 'Freso' S. Olesen -
Gerhard Killesreiter -
Gábor Hojtsy